I did not vote for the 1996 tax for rapid transit. The project voted for in 1996 was for light rail from Tacoma to Everett, and was supposed to be completed in 10 years - 2006. Ground did not even break for the light rail project until 2006, and it only goes from Seattle to the airport. Now that the bus tunnel is reopening, the express buses from the north end and the sound end will not be back in the tunnel. I am tired of paying taxes for nothing! I live in Federal Way. The train is not an option for me. My only option is the bus, and now that the tunnel will not be available for bus routes from Federal Way, I am still stuck on 2nd Ave. going home. When there is a Mariners afternoon game, a Seahawks evening game, or as in this last week, a Microsoft meeting at Qwest Field, you can be stuck on the bus on 2nd Ave. for up to an hour. Also, coming in to Seattle on the Metro routes 177, 190, or 196 take approximately 15 to 20 minutes longer if you work up by Westlake because the bus gets on 4th Ave. and has to work its way through all that traffic. If Sound Transit and Metro want more riders, they need to make it better for the people who commute for outlying areas - not just the people downtown. I will be voting NO in November for more taxes. I have been paying taxes for the last 11 years for nothing. Thank you.

As long as companies like Microsoft have to provide their own bus systems to get employees from seattle to bellevue and visa-versa, the "roads & transit" campaign should take a look at that instead of just asking us for more. It seems Microsoft can do more to improve the commute for a lot of people for what is probably a whole lot less money. Maybe Boeing should look into the MS project too.

Taxes are 5 times too high as it is!

What the pols fail to realize is that the only reason anyone outside of Seattle proper is voting for this boondoggle is the hope that other drivers (not themselves) will adopt light rail making there own commute easier. What a waste of money.

Light rail doesn't work by Randall O'Toole:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8655

Light rail is the most expensive, least used tansit system in history. We are being robbed in wasted taxes every year over this. Never vote for a transit system you don't intend to use yourself, or you'll pay for something nobody wants. A TOTAL WASTE.

Just say NO! to more excessive car tab fees...say NO! to this initiative in November!

Even if we are still paying off bonds until 2057, light rail - particularly on the east side - is past due. St. Louis has light rail that started out from East St. Louis to the airport, and was so popular that it has been extended extensively. Mass transit must come to Seattle. I wager that it will be wildly popular and will make a significant dent in the traffic congestion.

maybe if our federal Gov would spend our tax money on ourselves instead of throwing it away we wouldn't have to ask our voters to spend even more of there hard earned dollars. I thought that's what we paid federal taxes for. No you pay taxes so our president can finance his special interest's then we individuals have to pay for everything else.

How much of the proposed light rail addition will be at-grade and how much will be grade separated? I would rather see what the impacts are on traffic with the at-grade segments of the initial Central Link line, and how much the light rail trains themselves are slowed down by the at-grade segments, before committing to build any more at-grade segments. I would rather spend more for entirely grade-separated lines.

Maybe King county should turn the BNSF Rail corridor that they want to turn into a bike path over to Sound Transit. They could instantly have a maintained rail line that they could run standard passenger cars on and they could run from Renton to Everett! It even goes thru downtown Bellevue. No need to build rail. They might have to build a few stations.

I wholeheartedly support light rail and will be voting yes in November. People, light rail needs to happen and we need to accept the fact that it won't be free.

And, for those of you who think that you are paying taxes for nothing just because a light rail line isn't going to run past your house, think again. This takes cars off the road. Cars that YOU will no longer need to compete with in your morning commute. Anyone who rides the system will be 100% off of YOUR road.

I totally agree with Clayton as well, turning currently existing BNSF rail beds into bike trails is a huge waste of money. If we used them for light rail we would save millions (if not billions nationwide), and best of all we would have light rail SOONER and in far more locations.

Sound Transit will bankrupt the state. We could buy each rider a car for less than this will cost. Buses are cheaper and more flexible. Sound Transit has not and will not deliver on their promises. This will be a boondoggle.

Our high taxes are contributing to the fact that most of our younger generation cannot affort to buy homes, especially if they are a one-income family. And I believe that is pathetic.NO to light rail and higher taxes!

My whole family will be voting no on this issue. Sound Transit can not even bother to tell us the truth in real dollars what this project is going to cost each tax payer. It is staggering what the final outcome is going to cost each houshold. If they want support, they need to first be truthful to the people that are going to pay for the projects. Vote NO No No on this project!

By the time light transit is done we will have electric cars and we'll all be 100% back in the auto mentality. Better to build more lanes with the money and get prepared.

I am a bus driver who does not support the new taxes. Our taxes keep rising and we are not given what we are paying the taxes for. In addition the current transit system is inefficient and designed not to make money that could help ease the cost of future projects.

Already we see an increase in ridership for public transportation. As the costs of owning, operating,insuring and parking a car keep rising, individual car trips will be drastically cut. It has become apparent that we have a shortage of sustainable fuel supplies. Even with the pie in the sky bio fuel promise, it will eventually come down to: Would you rather eat than drive? Food prices are growing around the globe because of the growth of bio fuel agriculture replacing food production. This is not a sustainable program in support of motor vehicles. The nay sayer's killed light rail in the sixtieth and they are doing it now. Kemper Freeman is leading the charge again. It will be necessary to bite the bullet and stop paving over the country to facilitate a decreasing number of personal car drivers' commuting and polluting habits. I am voting for light rail.

Transit projects like this have almost bankrupt Atlanta and other cities. Sound Transit has not and will not deliver what they promise. They will finish the projects but at a much higher cost than they say. I don't mind paying my share of something that the entire community will benefit from, but this only a few will benefit unless you work for WSDOT or Sound Transit. THIS WILL SOLVE NOTHING. A 9.5% sales tax!!!! Hello. How many businesses will fold and or move? Businesses pay the majority of the sales tax in this state. The sales tax will NEVER be recinded.

Let me see now...
There is a current suggestion to build a new bridge for I-520 which would have an exorbitant toll and additional tax, then there is the viaduct renewal with resulting increase in taxes and now an unbelievable tax increase suggestion for license tabs and regional tax.
Again, the middle class is being asked to pay for grandiose ideas and boondoggle projects.
I am sick and tired of the government, both State and Federal politicians, of assuming that taxpayers want to pay increasing taxes while they vote themselves pay raises and increasingly vote for boondoggle projects/programs being pushed by various interest groups (usually not to the betterment of the voting public).

Wow, glad to see that the citizens of this state are not in support of this project. It's about time we put our foot down and say enough is enough. You have enough of our money, quit asking for more. I dont want my sales tax at almost 10 percent. I dont want my household to pay almost 100k at the end of this project. I dont want my vehicle taxes going up at all, I have already let them go up for the monorail, and I refuse to do it again. SO I AM VOTING NO NO NO NO NO on this whole package.

light-rail is the best solution for these painful morning/afternoon commutes.

during the I-5 fiasco, ST proved to be a necessary service, indispensable w/ our current state of transportation, whether through light-rail lines (currently) running south/north 4-5 times daily, to the bus-lines criss-crossing the region (w/ the help of Metro/CommTran).

additions to light-rail will only improve to the trans system, and the proposed tax increase (though still under debate) is a small price to pay for expanding a truely efficient means of moving around the area.

If you take light-rail as part of your daily commute, you know how essential the service is. If you dont, chances are you wont appreciate just how helpful such a thing is.

MY SUGGESTION: Take some time to sample the system before forming an opinion which may further doom regional traffic...

(rick- your jobs tied to public trans...dont knock it, especially if metro/commtran/etc use ST stations). New roads wont do anything

(ray- according to my elders, we were supposed to have electric (flying) cars almost decades ago....i wouldnt hold my breath on that)

This is an incredibly huge tax increase. Our sales tax in Seattle is already 8.9%. If proposition 1 passes, it will go up to 9.5%. That is ridiculous. The sales tax is a very regressive tax. The sales tax is way too high as it is now. How can anyone support raising it even higher?

I like what Microsoft is doing, paying for its own bus line. That is the way to take care of transportation problems -- let businesses pay for it themselves, either building their own private bus systems, or by increasing business taxes, not sales taxes or property taxes.

Light rail is the biggest boondoggle since the monorail. Light rail is a complete waste of money. This is why Sound Transit wants us to vote to expand light rail now, before the first line to the airport opens, and everyone sees what a waste of money it is.

And it sounds like Sound Transit is using the same inaccurate finance numbers scheme that the Monorail board tried to foist on the public. Sound Transit is not counting the taxes they will collect after 2027, even though some of the bonds for the new light rail won't be paid off until 2057? How dishonest can you get?

I will be voting NO on Proposition 1.

We need to send Sound Transit back to the drawing board as the cost is just way too high. Sound Transit does need to turn to the BSNF corridor for cost cuts and utilize the right-of-way that already exists.

Your balanced presentation of Upfront on September 16, 2007 was beneficial.
I lived in Europe (Germany) for over 13 years and marveled at their mass transit. Unfortunately, this is not Europe. I'm disgusted with both sides of the issue and the future of the Puget Sound growth. I'm waitng for a public official to state the Puget Sound doesn't need to grow, it needs to go on a diet to contain our obesity growth.
The three counties are narrowly between mountains and water which should tell city/urban planners, enough is enough. Stop the box stores and Quarant type home builders in the area. The problem is cities/counties are addicted to the tax dollars and we'll keep building/growing and our critical infrastructure will continue to be stressed due to demand. The future of the Puget Sound is making me consider a move from one of the most beautiful but overdeveloped areas in the US. I would support the proposed bill if this area was strong on curtailing growth. But it's not! This is a band-aid approach for a much bigger problem then just road and transit concerns.

De ja vu - we'll probably watch your show in 7-10 years requesting more dollars for roads and transit because we can't stop the obesity growth. The area needs a diet not to get fatter at tax payers expense for the benefit of big business.

Not just no but HELL no. This is just another government boondoggle. Why did they not report on the trains that Sound Transit bought at the start of this program and then sold for 20 cents on the dollar. how about the sounder from Everett to Seattle. 1000 Dollars a person per day.

I have often thought about the effective use of our railways rather than reinventing everything.
Our current rail system has the structure in place already- it needs to be managed more effectively usung computer interface- freight and light rail can co-exist why do we always have to throw away the old for the new? Does anyone else understand this concept?
Can we use what is already in place more effectively- it would save billions even trillions.

Like most roads and transit critics, Steve Reinbrecht is driven by an ideology totally unrelated to the issue at hand.

And like most roads and transit critics, the "solution" he comes up with (stopping growth) is absurd and infeasible.

Could the other critics actually attempt to give us an example of what a viable alternative would look like? Anybody? Anybody?

I think we need mass transportation, but demand better financial accountability. Also, I'm concerned about quality of the end product. The elevated sections which have been completed do not appear to be "fair" either in the vertical or horizontal plane, which could result in a shaky ride. Is that "the best we can do"?

Vancouver BC, Portland Ore already has a major light rail and I always use it while visiting cause it goes everywhere

Less traffic, less carbon is good for Seattle and the Earth.

To delay will cost us more than dollars!

I don't think the power structure is willing to go the extra mile and come up with solutions outside of the all-too-well-beaten paths. Let me explain. For one, no matter where you go, the mere addition of transit systems by themselves has never been the answer. For no matter what system is added, the ridership will remain in the 7 to 8 percent range. Build the most elaborate and advanced system that you can and it may increase this by 1 or 2 percent. This means that if you look at any incremental increase in ridership and the dollars involved, you come up with some rather outlandish unit costs per rider. Does this make sense? No way! People will continue to cling to their cars until we reach some sort of crisis stage. Witness the number of homes being built further and further out, and with many more sporting 3 and 4 car garages. Want further proof? Look at the demise of excellent commuter train systems where just about every small town on any main railroad line had its own station and stationmaster. All vanished with the arrival of the great love affair with automobiles and the accompanying capability to drive to industries located further and further away. Want to buy an old train station? There are plenty for sale.
So what are some possible meaningful answers? Well, for one, let's charge a significant amount more to license that second and third or more cars at a particular address. I abhor government control of my life but there are times when our politicos need to step forward with other than meaningless election-oriented words, expensive non-solution projects, and an epicyclic band aid approach. And I don't mean a difference of one or two hundred dollars but something on the order of two to three thousand dollars for the second car; even much more for the third and beyond. We’ve got to get some of these cars off the roads; the pocketbook approach is the only thing that has been shown to work. Couple this with a toll to drive into the city by requiring a sticker that could also be a bit pricey and whala! you would make a difference. Furthermore couple these impositions with tax rewards to companies who are willing to centralize their operations and who will support the vertical growth of industry closer to population centers rather than spreading it out all over several counties. Unfortunately, today the political power brokers in any political entity will bend over backwards with tax breaks and other perks in order to attract more industry thus adding to the problem. It is a sad fact of life but size, population, and the tax base all add to the muscle any of these entities can exert. So, without a detour of some sort, this governmental type of non-solution will continue ad-infinitum. As for companies: Boeing for example, is one of the prime offenders in this area for despite all their whining about transportation problems, they remain located all over the place. The new Dreamliner approach is further aggravating the problem. Is this anyway to help solve a transportation problem? No! Of course, if you are a company looking for a reason to move out of the area, it makes excellent cannon fodder for that purpose. In the meantime however, I'm sure we'll continue to be bombarded with discussion after discussion by the power brokers and scolding of one kind or another. In the end, they'll come up with more variations of the same old stale and tired proposals ad infinitum. Oh yes, no matter what they come up with, they'll cost way beyond the rewards we'll ever glean from them.

I remember growing up in Los Angeles when the city started building it's light rail system. All the a anti-light rail people were making noise of how people would not ride the system. Beverly Hills even jumped on the bandwagon. Beverly Hills reason was they didn't want a tunnel or their parking fees to dwindle.

Well now that there is a light rail system people want more. Beverly Hills wants it going through their city now. West Los Angeles fought so hard they are now building a light rail through my old neighborhood.

People do ride them. I never drove to downtown once the light rail started. I would go to a park and ride and hope on the subway. If I wanted to go to Pasadena I would do the same.

I remember the same crowd trying to stop light rails from being build in San Diego and Orange County. Now you don't hear them anymore. I wonder why?

These people who are anti rail are realy anti-tax. I hate taxes but people have to stop complaining about taxes here. You don't get things done unless you pay. On top of that we don't even pay a state tax!

One thing I do not agree with is turning the BSNF rail into a trail. I love trails but that should be use for a light rail, the right away is already there and it would ease congestion on I-405.

There are three great truths that are barely covered by the media in all this, and poorly understood by the voting public. I will vote NO on prop 1 because it spends a great deal of our effort and money on transportation without really tackling any of them.

Truth One: The Age of Oil is starting to come to a close. Ever wonder why your gas is really going up and up? It's because oil demand is greater than ever and because all the largest fields in the world are beginning to decline... Mexico, the North Sea, Alaska, even the Middle East. There is far less oil in the "tar sands" than most people realize. For the majority of Americans driving a personal car will be prohibitively expensive in 15 years - unless Detroit has us all driving 200mpg cars - don't hold your breath. Adding to our highways now is basically creating a "stranded asset". The depletion of oil is called "Peak Oil". Google it and learn the truth about what we need to consider with transportation.

2) Global Warming is real, and its effects if we continue business as usual will be catastrophic. Local news like King 5 News does not even begin to cover this issue with the attention it deserves.

3) We need to focus on density, where appropriate, and on making our local communities more walkable and bikable so that we are close to most of what we need. These areas of Density need to be connected with the most cost-effective, least energy entensive means possible.

Prop 1 doesnt even get close to addressing these truths, and King 5 news is not even close to giving the viewer a real picture of what needs to be considered in planning our transporation future.

Kemper Freeman is dead wrong. We cannot pave our way out of this mess with more concrete freeways!! (Does he want to double-deck the corridors? Tear down people's homes along existing routes?) His answer is not a forward looking solution, but rather harkens back to an idealistic view of the 50's and 60's when getting more people into cars was the only way to bring people to Bellevue Square. Today, surface street congestion on NE 4th and NE 8th is the very reason I AVOID traveling into Bellevue at all costs.

We must make a large investment in mass transit now that is already LONG overdue. I am willing to pay more in taxes to improve regional movement.

To do nothing means we assure ourselves of gridlock for decades.

The Roads and Transit package is a balanced approach that puts some serious money into both Light Rail AND freeways. It is a compromise and recognition of competing regional needs. I would like to see Federal money contributed to improve our nation's infrastructure, but that isn't going to happen so long as Pres. Bush continues his $2 Billion a week war in Iraq and adds to our nation's ballooning deficit. (Remember when Republicans were supposed to be fiscally conservative? Pres. Clinton's several balanced budgets and budget surpluses is something today's Republican party can only dream of!

Most Western European nations have government financed mass transit. NY City has had railways subways for decades! BART in the SF Bay area and the LA rail system are solid winners. Closer to home, Portland, Oregon and Vancouver BC prove that a well run light rail mass transit system CAN get people out of their cars and can even revitalize once neglected neighborhoods. The threat of global warming means we need to change the way we have been operating. Lets make the Puget Sound a 21st Century center of commerce we can be proud to leave to our children. That requires a comprehensive and well-run mass transit system to move large numbers of people.

Kemper Freeman, get your facts straight or get out of the way. Your time is past, and your love affair with the car ise woefully out of date.

I suggest you take the Sound Transit "Lunch Bus" (http://www.soundtransit.org/x4825.xml) like I have done to see first hand the progress along the route and the amazing engineering and planning behind the Light Link system. (Kemper, actually take a bus someplace? Can't see that ever happening, can you!)

Sound Transit's Light Link system is on time and on budget. You sure can't say that about some of WSDOT's freeway projects.

We needed mass transit 10 years ago. We need it today, and we'll need it even MORE in the years to come.

Yes on the November Transit package!!

"This is just another government boondoggle. Why did they not report on the trains that Sound Transit bought at the start of this program and then sold for 20 cents on the dollar. "

Don Gross, thanks for proving my point. Do you just make this stuff up on the fly, or do you actually put some thought into these urban legends before posting them?

And Bill Wendell, what on earth informs your claim that those trains will provide a "shaky" ride? Just a wild guess? Should we stop building roads since they inevitably end up with bumps and potholes?

Could one of you guys try to come up with a REAL argument against rail? Pretty please?

"I think we need mass transportation, but demand better financial accountability."

Bill Wendel, Google 'Expert Review Panel Sound Transit' and you will see financial accountability is built in.

Not that Chickster will read it, but www.soundtransit.org/st2 also features a detailed cost-benefit analysis. And guess what? It proves she's wrong.

Re: Could the other critics actually attempt to give us an example of what a viable alternative would look like? Anybody? Anybody?

Posted by: Buzzy

Yes, it's called an express bus--or a local bus--and you can catch one today. Try it, you will like it. We just need more of them, now, all over the three county region. And if Sound Transit would spend as much money putting these on the road, today, those of us who actually use mass transit--instead of preaching about how it might be used twenty years from now by somebody else, at much greater public expense--would be much more able to more often get out of our cars, and off the road, now. If and where bus transit exists, on a frequent basis, at peak hours especially, on current roads, including freeways, people use it. Metro has shown that, for years. Sound Transit has shown it with its express buses to Tacoma, and links to Olympia and other outlying cities. Let's stop degrading or failing to improve the system we have, by allocating tax dollars for a pie in the sky system that might not work--and even if it does, will simply take riders from existing bus routes. At the very least, Sound Transit needs to show--better--that it can make do with what it has got, not with what it might want....Prop 1 is a tourniquet to shut off institutional bleeding--but it does not cure the patient. So turn Sound Transit over to Metro Transit--then I'll vote for it, because I trust they way they operate. Usually. It's 'no' for me, until they throw the Sound Transit rascals out, and start over.

One key to a better transit alternative is this:

Existing bus service can be improved dramatically(made faster, less crowded, more frequent, new routes) all over the region for $10 million per mile, much less than the cost of building light rail.

There are a hundred small things and few big things that make bus service more attractive to riders. Any daily bus rider can name ten.

Improving bus service also forces government to make the roads work better for HOVs, freight, and emergency vehicles.

New buses can and will be more energy efficient, and less polluting than the buses of today.

Light rail from Sound Transit costs $200 to $500 million per mile. In other words, building light rail is 20 to 50 times more expensive than bus improvement. And with light rail, you still need buses to get people to the train stations.

Why not focus on making the buses work for the whole trip?

You get more transit coverage and service, and more riders for the dollar, with buses.

Bus riders all over the region could benefit immediately if a fraction of the money needed by Sound Transit were directed to KC Metro Transit, Community Transit, Everett Transit, and Pierce Transit.

We can afford to green our roads; we cannot afford to build a duplicative passenger railroad network from Sound Transit beyond what this agency has already committed us to.

The idea of Prop 1 doubling our light rail taxes on the Sound Transit promise of an airport starter line that isn't scheduled to open until the end of 2009 is insulting. Just say NO.

Bus Rider:

I have taken the bus and I hate it. I hated taken the bus in Los Angeles (even though they won the best bus service in the nation award), Portland, and here in Seattle. The reason, it takes longer to get somewhere. It's stop and go, stop and go. That's why people stay in their cars.

My commute from Ballard takes 35 minutes by car to Sea-Tac. Imagine what it would take on a bus having to transfer busses 3 times? If the light rail was running right now you bet I get out of my car. Park the car at the park and ride and off I go to Sea-Tac. It may take 5-10 extra minutes, but that is time I can just relax and sit. My car is off the road.

If rail is so horrible, tell me why people in NY, DC, SF, London, Tokyo, Los Angeles, Portland all love theirs? Some of those cities really have traffic problems compare to us. If there was no rail service, all those people would be in a car. Some on a bus, but that bus has to share the road with those cars plus make stops every other block.

Anthony: You are going to use the light rail to commute between Ballard and SeaTac? What park and ride are you planning to use? Is there going to be a park and ride at the Westlake Center? How much will it cost to park there all day? You think it will be free to park in a downtown parking garage?

Even if there is a park and ride, and you can find a parking spot quickly, it will take you far more than 35 minutes to get from Ballard to SeaTac using the light rail. It will take you at least 10 minutes just to drive to the nearest light rail station. Then you have to find a parking spot. Walk to the train platform. Then wait for the train (at least 10 minutes between trains -- an average wait of 5 minutes). It would probably be at least 20 minutes from the time you leave your home before you even get on a train.

And how many people living in Seattle work at SeaTac airport? Unless you work right at the airport, you would have to transfer to a bus to take you from the light rail station to wherever you actually work, or else walk however far that is.

By car you can drive right to where you work, from right where you live. Shorter distance. Shorter time. No transfers. More convenient.

I doubt you will be using light rail to get from Ballard to SeaTac.

-Truth One: The Age of Oil is starting to come to a close.-

Bill Reiswig, those green cars will need roads to drive on, dontcha think? In fact, cheap green powered vehicles will likely drive vehicle miles upward. And way to sound like the Christian Right with that righteous language. Pick that up from Limbaugh and Fox News, Bill?

The poorly-informed and often ridiculous fringe perspectives well represented on this comment thread (everybody can be a couch transportation planner!) constitutes the real reason why Puget Sound suffers from poor mass transit options, and dilapidated roads.

In the past 30 years, the voters listened to all these whiners.

I think they are now poised to move forward with real solutions, rather than all this useless hot air.

The light rail just covers a narrow corridor of commuters. If they took the same amount of money and gave everybody free rides on all busses, I'd bet half the cars would be off the roads.

Let’s be clear on what the proposed rail system does and does not do.

The rail system is merely an overlay of the already best-served express bus corridors in the region. It will provide no new transit service for those not already served by transit. It merely provides a train ride option for those now using express bus routes.

The rail system is downtown Seattle-centric. By 2030 it is predicted to increase the transit share of trips to downtown Seattle, where 10% of the region’s jobs are located, from 36% without ST2 to 44% with ST2. For the balance of Seattle and the region where 90% of the region’s jobs are located, the transit share of total trips would only increase from 1.6% without ST2 to 1.8% with ST2. These transit shares are derived from Sound Transit and PSRC 2030 estimates.

Sound Transit’s models show that only 74,000 person “trips” per day will shift from auto mode to transit mode as a result of ST2. The balance of predicted rail ridership is merely a shift from bus to rail. The PSRC estimates 15 million total weekday auto and transit person trips by 2030 within the tri-county service area. That represents only a 0.5% shift from auto to transit by 2030 as a result of ST2.

Rail transit is not the great reducer of greenhouse gases (CO2) as claimed by proponents. According to the North Link SFEIS, it will take over 40 years for North Link to recover from the huge glut of CO2 emissions during its construction.

The RTID will increase traffic speeds on I-405 between Bellevue and Renton from 10-15 mph to 45 mph. This will reduce auto fuel consumption and CO2 emissions by half. Speed increases with more efficient auto operations would be the result of several other RTID projects. The RTID action would be far more effective in reducing greenhouse gases than No Action for increased road capacity.

What would be a better transit plan? Let’s delay building an expensive rail transit overlay of the already great transit services to downtown Seattle, and focus first on expanding the bus transit system to better serve the unserved needs of the rest of the region.

"Yes, it's called an express bus--or a local bus--and you can catch one today. Try it, you will like it. "

Bus Rider today, I ride the bus 3-4 days a week, and since I'm a transit supporter, I've ridden almost every major route - even when it's more inconvenient than driving my car. Since almost every pro-bus / anti-rail people never seem to have ever viewed the inside of a bus, I'm quite intrigued by you comments.

"We just need more of them, now, all over the three county region. And if Sound Transit would spend as much money putting these on the road, today, "

Oh, what better way to deal with congested roads than to fill them up with more buses. There's nothing like Buses Stuck in Traffic (therwise known as Bus Rapid Transit). Ironically, opponents to rail back in the '70s used the same argument back then as Bus Rider Holier than Thou Now uses today. Talk about vision!

"those of us who actually use mass transit--instead of preaching about how it might be used twenty years from now by somebody else, at much greater public expense--would be much more able to more often get out of our cars, and off the road"

So, Bus Rider Today, if we could just ignore the 1.5 million people on the way, your argument will hold water? Oh boy. The arguments just keep getting weaker and weaker. If you actually did ride the bus, you would know how limited low capacity transit can be. Works great if you've got a couple hours to kill, and don't mind packing in like a sardine. If you really think Metro is so great, try squeezing on to a jam-packed 194, 71, 7, 13, 15 or 18 at rush hour. If self-sacrifice isn't high on your list of things to do today, a slow, unreliable bus likely isn't for you.

Statistically, rail attracts 30 - 50 % more new riders than buses do nationwide. As such, Bus Rider Now actually contradicts his / her own position. If it's getting people out of their cars, buses aren't the way to do it. Typically, buses tend to attract the transit dependent, ie people who have no other choice but to drive. in other words, it's hard to get people out of their cars and on to a bus if they don't own a car. In Denver, for instance, half of their light rail patrons have never been on a bus.

"Metro has shown that, for years. Sound Transit has shown it with its express buses to Tacoma, and links to Olympia and other outlying cities"

I didn't think you knew what you were talking about, Bus Rider Today. There is no such bus to Olympia. Maybe you're writing from a different state?

"The light rail just covers a narrow corridor of commuters. If they took the same amount of money and gave everybody free rides on all busses, I'd bet half the cars would be off the roads."

Actually, Glenn Sawyer, it would turn the buses into mobile homeless encampments. The free ride zone in downtown Seattle has been good to a certain degree, but it has created enormous security problems which tend to drive the non-transit dependent AWAY from public transit. This idea was analyzed, and rejected, several years ago.

"Let's delay building an expensive rail transit overlay of the already great transit services to downtown Seattle, and focus first on expanding the bus transit system to better serve the unserved needs of the rest of the region."

Jim MacIsaac has been singing this tune about delaying progress for decades. If the region wasn't growing so quickly, he might have a point. Instead, we have a large number of new residents on the way, so MacIsaac could not be further from the mark.

I find it curious that these freeway proponent dinosaurs always pick the least viable and least effective transportation options to fight rail, and to push for more crowded freeways packed with solo drivers. Would you get advice from bicycle activists on how to best expand our road system, and expect an accurate or honest response? I don't think so.

Mr. MacIsaac even called for the light rail money to be re-programmed to monorail several years back. Too bad we didn't heed his advice back then right?

If Jim MacIsaac and the rest of the anti-transit pavement lobby actually proposed a real Bus Rapid Plan, he might gain some credibility. But the BRT guys always avoid putting out details, because they know buses cost a lot more in the long run (because operations and maintenance costs are much higher for buses) and they know buses won't get people out of their cars.

In fact, since MacIsaac and the rest of his "pave everything" friends at Kemper Development Corp are strong advocates of the patriotic freedom which accompany one-person-per car, it only makes sense they would fight rail, and gravitate towards the least effective mass transit options possible.

Ideology is a bad way to do transport planning (MacIsaac's Eastside Transportation Association is funded in total by a guy who's still fighting the communist threat)

If these right wing rail haters had a viable alternative that voters could use to compare against light rail, I would be happy to take a second look at light rail. But so far, they offer us nothing. Just endless, unfocused complaining about how their "conceptual" plans are better than the REAL plans voters will consider this November.

"The rail system is downtown Seattle-centric. By 2030 it is predicted to increase the transit share of trips to downtown Seattle, where 10% of the region's jobs are located, from 36% without ST2 to 44% with ST2."

This claim by Jim MacIsaac always makes me laugh. I hear rail critics in Seattle saying just the opposite - that burbs are getting all these rail stations, and Seattle gets little beyond the line under construction now. The truth lies somewhere in between. MacIsaac knows it doesn't matter where the rail lines originates or terminates. People use it to reach all the destinations inbetween. More stations and transfer points and extensions = more city, suburban and exurban riders using the overall system. To pit one neighborhood or city against another, and to use the old Rovian divide and conquer tactics, is just plain sad. And lazy.

I think the perenially disgruntled activists need to get together for a big (well, small) convention in some bland office park (where MacIsaac's group meets) so they can settle on a set of arguments which don't constantly contradict eachother's arguments.

Is light rail a slow, tiny trolley? Or is it a fast, long and dangerous bullet train, destined to kill? Will light rail reduce property values, or will it raise values so high, people will be forced out of their houses and business? Will anybody ride light rail, or will the trains be so crowded they won't be convenient? This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

At this point the NO RAIL EVER! activists' arguments are all over the place. MacIsaac's "fun with fuzzy math" only serves to confuse people, because they never use a baseline or start with industry standards.

This lack of focus and standardization allows them to make up just about anything they want, which I suppose is the point - but it also serves to create long, rambling pages of randomly-selected data which creates little more than abject confusion for the average person.

The fact is the current light rail project is years and millions of dollars over the original plans and I don't see any smarter or more honest people in charge now then in the past. Part of the problem is poor management, with an apparent disregard for the public/users. No private individual would be so loose with the money unless they were on drugs. Sound Transit is an uncontrolled agency with little or no fiscal interest!
...... VOTE NO ......
..... ON PROP ONE .....

money for more light rail lines is a waste of time

the transportation people should worry more about a new monorail that is a hybrid one
than giving money to the people who care about light rail

Robert: Well produced segment on the transportation tax!

However, the transportation tax package is nothing but a "Pyramid Scheme", sell, sell, sell, build, build and then go broke, solving nothing.

It is the well-to-do (business round table types)mortgaging our kids and grand kids.

I think it would be a really good investment and convenient for travelers.

I think it would be a really good investment and convenient for travelers.

I think it would be a really good investment and convenient for travelers.

It is obvious it is more taxes and the last thing we need is more taxes when they cannot use the taxes they have very efficiently. This state already has one of the highest sales taxes and real estate taxes. The funds that were allocated more than 10 years ago did not do the job so now they want more. i say absolutely NO. We are being abused at all aspects of our financial lives and we have less to work with today than we had 10 years ago and our salaries are less, our gasoline is more, our taxes are higher, homes are more and fewer can afford them, our health care is less and cost more, all the while our minimum wage is still at 1970 comparative levels. Our government is non-functional at a huge expense and giving it all way, and they want what? More taxes, HA, HA, HA.

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

I lived in San Jose, CA during the years light rail was being built there and put into use. It's a poorly used means of transportation for the same reason light rail will fail in Seattle area - too much geography to cover! It takes way too long to get anywhere in San Jose due to the number of stops light rail makes. Even with the well-known traffic snarls in the SF Bay Area, it still takes longer to get anywhere with the San Jose light rail system than driving in your own car. I would vote NO for light rail expansion in the Seattle area.

Mr. Mack;
I just finished watching the Up Front at 11:30 Sunday night. The last supporter on the program didn't speak honestly. Quote:He said that the businesses pay most of the sales taxes.unquote. Business when they purchase mercandice for resale are tax exempt! Yes TAX EXCEMPT. The customer pays the sales tax on purchases and the merchant collects this tax and then pays it to the state which in turn returns a portion of it to the various counties, state and cities. So it is the customer who pays. I DO NOT SUPPORT RAISING THE SALES TAXES OR ANY TAXES INCREASE OF ANY KIND> IT is the responsability of our government to spend the money wisely and should face strict audits and accountability. Until they do both they DO NOT DESRVE MORE TAXES OF ANY KIND!
I've been a merchant for many years and know of what I speak!
Ray Harley

Like clockwork, not a single one of these naysayers is able to describe what the alternative would be.

I also get the feeling that those in pursuit of the Free Lunch (Eyman's loyal troops) must think somebody ELSE will pay for the roads they drive on.

Or, more likely, I doubt a lot of these folks leave their houses very often.

Sure, light rail got off track. It was a start-up agency, not just a start-up rail line. Now, you can't miss the project if you're anywhere near the airport. And yet, progress only serves to make grumps and naysayers even more mad.

This morning, God sent a message to the cranky anti-tax / anti-everything people. First rainy commute. Sorry guys, the status quo is a joke:

UPDATE 7:10 AM : I-5 NORTHBOUND AT ALBRO ACCIDENT BLOCKING 3 LEFT LANES VERIFIED WITH CAMERA 5:52 AM - FIRE DEPT , AID , STATE PATROL , INCIDENT RESPONSE TEAM , TOW ON SCENE

* SR-520 EASTBOUND JUST WEST OF WEST LAKE SAMMAMISH PARKWAY ACCIDENT BLOCKING RIGHT LANE VERIFIED WITH CAMERA 7:44 AM - STATE PATROL ON SCENE

The idea of using the railroad tracks from renton to everett through bellevue would be great, however remember that Bellevue will be removing the tracks when they widen the tunnel - which is why the Spirit dinner train now runs from Tacoma to Mt. Rainier. Does anyone think they could get Bellevue to reinstall the tracks and also get the Lite Rail committee to even "think" about the possibility of using existing tracks?
What we need is light rail from Everett to the Eastside and the Eastside to Renton to get all the Boeing people off the roads, but that's apparently not even really in the plans - just downtown seattle.

After watching your programming yesterday evening about the Light Rail, and listening to the comments by Kemper Freeman... I think his suggestion to add wider roads is perfect for areas around Clyde Hill, Medina and Hunts point. This is often the most congested area, and adding 4 more lanes there would not only ease traffic, but the additional engine exhaust and other gas combustion pollutants will greatly increase the risk of leukemia and other cancers for those east side residents and their children. Maybe then, the wealthy will make more tax-deductible donations for cancer research because their families are directly affected. Or not, and relocate farther east where they can tear down acres of forests, overdevelop the land and rob any recognizable natural elements - similar to Issaquah, Woodinville and Bothell. (Sounds like a good plan? Fortunately for Kemper, he lives in his ridiculous condo and walks to work. It's amazing that someone can praise themselves for turning a potentially vibrant community into a gigantic culture-less mega mall.)

Reasons why I will vote "NO"!
The Transit Proposal as proposed really is inmy mind so last century.

Sound Transit insists that to use light rail you have to transit thru Seattle. I believe all the backed up traffic on I 405 indicates they are plan is flawed.

For most of us I see no alternative to the automobile as I review the Sound Transit Plan. Lastly as you suck all the money from out our local Tri-county area other needs will be neglected.

"Like clockwork, not a single one of these naysayers is able to describe what the alternative [to light rail] would be."

The alternative could be Bus Rapid Transit on freeway HOT and arterial bus-only lanes.

> HOT lanes ensure 50 to 60 mph transit mobility on freeways, even at the height of rush hours. Bus-only lanes provide transit mobility on arterials at all times.

> With off-line loading,BRT on HOT lanes has several times the capacity of light rail.

> BRT would be a small fraction of the cost of light rail.

> BRT can be deployed in years, not decades.

> HOT lanes provide a template for the eventual congestion-pricing of all freeway lanes (as proposed by Sims and the Sierra Club), which if implemented would increase the capacity (through-put) of freeways to 200% of today's rush hours conditions.

I'll be voting HELL NO for a variety of reasons. The cost/tax increases are utterly insane, but IF THE PROPOSAL WOULD HELP SOLVE THE TRAFFIC MESS, I WOULD HAPPILY VOTE FOR IT. The problem is that more light rail will only make traffic WORSE! Get a clue, people: a long train AT SURFACE GRADE going through Seattle or any neighborhood is going to cause instant gridlock as it blocks traffic on the cross streets all around (that's why we voted for the monorail - I guess it's cost - a tiny fraction of this boondoggle - wasn't astronimical enough so Mayor Gridlock had to kill it).

I would love it if we had a good, extensive rail system that got people where they wantd to go, but this system only duplicates existing bus lines, and unles you want to go ONLY between Northgate or Tacoma and downtown Seattle, this wil do nothing to help things.

This is another disaster waiting to happen to us. It won't make things better, it will make things worse. Yes, the status quo stinks. But this will only make it worse - never mind the insane cost.

I'm voting "HELL NO" and urge any sane voters left to do the same.

See you out in the gridlock.

I just moved here from LA and I am for the expansion of our light rail versus building or wedening of freeways, if you look at LA they widened and built more freeways and the gridlock did not improved but worsened as more people means more cars and now they just expanded the construction of the subway light rail from wilshire blvd to santa monica pier and there is a proposal to extend it to LAX, it was an uphill battle because to the cost but it did passed and approved. same thing is going to happen here. i say expand the light rail all the way to the canadian border to the oregon border, this will increase tourism from canada which means more jobs and revenues for the city and state. while it is true that not all routes will be covered as stated by the Mayor of Bellevue, the light rail will definitely help ease congestion and pollution. now the cost should be in transparency and bidding. With LA, the ridership of the subway and railway increased when the price of gas went up to $3.00 per gallon. with the railway, commuters can plan their outings and routes to use it. we also need to expand the water taxi since we have a lot of lakes that are navigationable, lets use this natural resource to our advantage. Park your car at the parking lot at the stations and use the mass transit. This is the way to go in our increasing populations and cost of infrastructures and pollution. better than none. finally, i visited Toronto Canada a couple of years ago and I was very impressed with their mass transit system, its like you don't need a car really. We should look and imitate Toronto's mass transit. Also in LA they now have an express bus line called RTD buses powered by natural gas and large ones which has its own road and lanes and have a few stops only to major areas which makes it faster. I moved here in March of this year so my info to you is current. All of this will mean more taxes but what can we do, as the population grows so as the need for basic services and infrastructures and this all means money or taxes whether we like it or not unless we go back to horses. Thats why politicians say during election that they will not raise taxes, they are lying. This is what Pres Bush is all about all but lies.

I did not; nor will I ever, vote for light rail. It may sound all well and good on paper, but odly enough there are people here in the Puget Sound Area who make $50,000 or less a year. These people are having a rough time taking care of their families now with all the taxes and other means the cities around here are imposing.

Every time we turn around, the officials (whether elected or appointed) always want more money for this and more money for that. When will they stop? I don't believe they will even stop when they get all of our paychecks. No wonder there are so many people living on the streets. They can't afford to even rent a cheap place for them and their families.

I fully intend to vote a resounding NO to light rail or any other tax these cities will ask us to support. I am sick and tired of barely living from paycheck to paycheck and not getting by. I am on disability. I get a whopping $149 a month and my husband works full time. We can hardly make our house payments. The lower loan interest charges don't help us at all because every time we turn around, you guys want more and more money.

I have an average household, yet I do not want to pay ~$2000 per year additional taxes for the simplistic idea of bringing more people to the downtown Seattle area by train.

Bankers and Lawyers don't need a train. The people who clean and maintain their office building are not likely to train-in with hardware in hand.

Downtown Seattle is taking far too many tax-payer resources in it's effort to build an image of a megalopolous.

I'm voting YES on Prop. 1 because it will do a tremendous amount to clean up traffic around here, because if we wait the costs will go up, because we're growing and we need to do something sensisble AND because people like Kemper Freeman have held things up around here for long enough and it is time to put him, and others like him, into the history books.

The money spent on light rail idiocy could have repaired, rebuilt and expanded every road in the Puget Sound region. The cost over runs alone would have paid for new busses and other means of moving people. No matter how many more miles are built, light rail will remain a white elephant that should be buried.

*The total cost will be over $157,000,000,000!!
*The sales tax will increase by .5%!
*License tab fees will increase $80 per $10,000 of vehicle value!
*Sound Transit has been an expensive bureaucratic mess.
*I'm voting NO!*

*The total cost will be over $157,000,000,000!!
*The sales tax will increase by .5%!
*License tab fees will increase $80 per $10,000 of vehicle value!
*Sound Transit has been an expensive bureaucratic mess.
*I'm voting NO!*

Light Rail just becomes a hub for the drainage of society mug those that have.

They (G'ment) has too much of our money as it is. They want to afford Light Rail?? Roll back their spending on useless programs. they'll have more than enough.

No More Taxes.

I work near the airport and I still wouldn't use the light rail. I never use public transit. why? Because who wants to sit next to some filthy guy who hasn't washed his long hair for a month wearing a shirt telling us how much he hates his country? No way, I'll stay in my controlled enviroment car.

Encouraged that Ron Sims finally comes out and opposes the RTP.
He makes all the good/right arguments this time, but neglects to mention that we can have a good rail line on the Eastside up and running in just a few years, for very little money. The BNSF corridor currently lays unused, and is under the risk of being cut at the Wilburton overpass any day.

The BNSF line could serve Renton, Bellevue, Kirkland, Woodinville, Snohomish, Everett, as well as provide a needed "2nd route" for freight trains through the Puget Sound, in case something would happen to the downtown Seattle rail tunnel (weak link).

For more info, check out:
www.eastsiderailnow.org

On top of that, having a "RTP" that fails to FULLY FUND SR520 as well as the Alaskan Way "tunnel" is foolish and short sighted. We need both, and we need them today, not 25 years out.

I voted no on unsound transit in 1996 and I can hardily wait to vote no on the stupid system in 2007. Who needs a system that will cost each home up to $ 900.00/year and more through 2057? Why isn't toll roads included to pay for the prodjects? Why are Covington,Maplevalley,Issaquah and Black Diamond exempted from the transit taxes?

Traffic report from 2010 or 2011 (when ST "light" rail is actually put into service).

UPDATE 7:10 AM : NORTHBOUND SOUND TRANSIT AT TUKWILA. DERAILMENT CAUSING SYSTEM SHUTDOWN. 7:26 AM - FIRE DEPT , AID , STATE PATROL , INCIDENT RESPONSE TEAM , TOW ON SCENE. BUSSES TO CARRY ALL 6 PASSENGERS TO DOWNTOWN.

* SOUNDER SOUTHBOUND JUST SOUTH OF SNO-KING LINE, MUDSLIDE BLOCKING LINE VERIFIED WITH CAMERA 7:44 AM - SOUND TRANSIT ON SCENE. ADVISE USE OF BUSSES FOR REMAINDER OF WEEK. BUS CALLED IN TO RESCUE ALL 3 PASSENGERS. (Now, THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING!!!!)

Golly. What a tremendous use of our tax resource.

How many goods will light rail deliver to our stores?

Oh.

How much food will it deliver to the stores?

Oh.

How many kids will it carry to school?

Oh.

How many first responders will use light rail to fight fires, service the injured or fight crime?

Oh.

How many services will be delivered to our homes via light rail (pizza delivery, plumbers, installers, electricians, etc)?

Oh.

The roads can do all of those things. And so much more. For a lot less money.

Advocates of rail are barely out of the stone age. What's next: Return to the horse and buggy?

And. Let's cut to the chase: Advocates of light rail are racists (gentrification).

Blacks will be forced through increased taxation along the line to move so that rich white developers can purchase their properties to build mega-million dollar developments (e.g.: condos, software businesses).

Typical of rich white liberals.

Think about it: How much backwards-thinking and just plain stupidity can be wrapped into one "feel good" project?

Light rail pushes (destroys?) all known boundaries of decency, ethics, morality, honesty and common sense.

While I really am for "Rapid Transit", there is nothing rapid about expanding the light rail system. Environmentally, if we are to have any hope for slowing the impacts of global warming, we need strategies that can be implemented within the next 2-5 years. These include bus rapid transit, tolling, and graduated tax and credit system for electric, hybrid electric vehical versus petro based vehicles.

As I visit Vancouver BC, bi-monthly, I can tell you that the skytrain(vancouvers elevated train) doesn't solve all their traffic issues. The biggest issue always is getting people to the light rail stations... waiting for the bus to take you to the skytrain station leads the majority Lower mainlanders just as Americans to jumping in their cars because of "convenience". Lower mainlanders are stuck in just a bad a gridlock as their Puget Sound counterparts.

As an ex-system engineer, I believe that the transportation system needs to be re-engineered to relieve congestion and curb adverse environmental effects. This proposition severely misses the mark on both accounts.

did anyone forget that the values of your cars are WAAAAYYYY overvalued!!!!! my 97 pickup is worth (kelly blue book mind you) 3500. but the state values it at over 10000!
plus they forgot to tell you that this tax is added to what your already paying on your tabs!
no F-ing! way on prop 1!!!!!!!

Global warming is a hoax and there is nothing man can do about it. Blame the sun and the earth's natural cycles. Maybe you can do a voodoo dance to stop it because that is about all man can do to change it.

I live in the Sno-vally area. Work in Redmond. I'm 50 years old. What good is the lite rail out in this direction? Absolutely worthless. Hosed by Seattle again. It appears the rails run just north and south. As usual, "they" don't care about the smaller towns that surround the major cities. Have "they" seen how many people are moving out of the cities and into the country? By the time "they" get rails to the eastside, I'll be freaking dead. Hell no, enough is enough. "They" remind me of cows, chew up all the green, and leave nothing but pies.

NO! I don't want to keep investing in the technology of yesterday. Digging up roads and displacing houses and people to make way for a train system to come through so that cars can wait for trains to go by is not the solution.
We need to build a train system that is elevated on it's own track, not on the ground. It should go to Mt. Vernon, Issaquah, Tacoma, Everett and Olympia. We need a real system, not a piece meal half-baked train that doesn't help anybody get any where. As far as light rail-the future ain't what it used to be.

I believe we need strong mass transit.

The problem with light rail is how do I get to it from home or work or my final destination? Take another bus, if one exists?

I dont see the advantages of light rail over dedicated bus coridoors. A light rail is no good without tracks. A bus can use dedicated coridoor for congested areas but at the end, continue on local surface roads to solve the last mile problem. Building a bus coridoor also provides phase by phase relief. If a light rail track is damaged, the system is broken. However if a dedicated bus coridoor is damaged, a bus can use public roads for the damaged section and continue back on past the damage. In essence, busses with dedicated coridoors act as light rail for congested part of the journey.

Also, why is the funding thru sales tax increase and not gasoline tax increase? We want to incentive people for using less gas and more public transportation. I also support toll roads.

I am so SICK of this TV commercial...I'll vote just the opposite. It must be costing thousands of dollars for their TV commercials. Once a day would be more than enough !!!! If they have that much money, they should donate it to a Food Bank.

Vote No! I can hardly pay my bills now. No more taxes!

Western Washington needs a well thought out, well planed mass transit system. Sound Transit is not it!

They have already shown that they CAN NOT build light rail on time and on budget.

I also look at the work sound transit has already done. They reworked all of the highway intersections on 405 in Bellevue, including NE 8, added one NE6, NE 4, and SE 8. Anybody who drives this section of highway knows that 1) the street traffic did not justify this, and 2) the bottle necks on the highway is at 520 and I90.

The Light rail extension to the East side doesn't take a small thing like reality into consideration. Reducing lanes on I-90 will increase congestion on the bridge. If we have to build a new 520, why not have the new 520 bridge handle light rail from the start. Oops I almost forgot, we tried that with the down town buss tunnel, but sound transit light rail cars would not fit in the tunnel. Maybe Sound Transit should of decided on a light rail option to run on infrastructure already in place.

Also don't forget that the taxes will help run the light rail system. Should mass transit be subsidies by the local sales tax and tab taxes? I do not so. Light rail should be able to after initial investment be able to maintain itself with revenue it generates itself.

Needless to say I'm voting NO, please join me in standing up against a local government witch is out of control.
Bryan