Why do ORV riders feel ENTITLED to disrupt the peace of neighborhoods? Bikes can be made whisper quiet! Is it really worth it to ruin your neighbors home life, and community peace just for a few extra HP? If ORV riders are really such family oriented folks, why do they not think about all the other families around where they ride, and respect their rights? If ORV riders want to continue with their activities, they will have to join civilization and become considerate citizens.

Is there really a problem with ORVs or is it a perceived one by a few vocal people? Just look at Senator Kline's response to a constituent of his who stated he opposed SB 5544 and asked the Senator to not support it because it was too restrictive. Show me anywhere in the Senators response above that mentions ANYTHING about ORVs being too noisy. Just look at it, one of the prime sponsors has absolutely not one word to back up the bad bill SB 5544. Most people know that it is illegal for teenagers to drink so he didn't even do his part in stopping that with current laws that ARE available.

You ask how to balance the issue but obviously some just don't like motorized vehicles so they are the ones speaking out. Obviously 45 decibels is too low as normal conversation is 4 TIMES as loud as what the ORVs would have been allowed. I have seen a lot of the state and I see loud stereos being a bigger problem in many areas with the driving bass that some have.

The biggest thing is there are laws in place that will take care of the extreme noise and tolerance on BOTH sides is what it takes to handle the average cases. Just remember that SB 5544 would have even included the quietest ORVs made with the low sound levels that it had stated so some research should also be done as to why the bill wanted things so quiet and why there was a study funded by the legislature last year about ORV noise that this bill didn't use any of the suggestions.

Noise is noise. If the government wants to enforce noise laws it should be enforced EQUALLY! ORV's should not be singled out. Kline is one smugg SOB!

these same lawmakers and their uptown friends are the same ones who dont want any horses on the trails and want to trample our second admenment rights want to stop hunting and fishing we the blue collar comunity are looked down on because we dont attend wine tasteing events and the arts. i dont like the noise if they are being ridden on the road in front of my home either but in the legal areas more power to them maybe its about time the orv ers and the gun owners and the horseman and the fisherman stand togeather and vote these people out thank you JOE KRESS

I totally disagree with this law! I am more concerned about noise from high-volumn boomboxes interferring with a nice, quiet evening - especially when it can't be determined which house in the neighborhood this noise comes from. My two sons and grandsons have been ORV riders for many, many years. I have enjoyed watching them, going with them, and even riding with them. It is a great outdoor activity and when I hear them out there doing that, I know that they are having fun! Let's get real!

What has not been covered clearly is that this rediculous law ( 45db???) would effectively close down all official sanctioned orv ride areas like tahuya, capitol forest, walker valley and reiter. homeowners near there could invoke this "plainly audible" issue to close it forever!! this is really what fontenot and kline are after, not a very few noisy neighbors in real neighborhoods. enforce existing laws, dont impose more rules on us ok???
Joe

look, im all for quiet, and im all for fun. why cant there be like, a 3 hour thing, or like, from 4 till 7 on weekdays and noon till 4 on weekends. it would not be like that everywhere, there would have to be different ones for everyone. i just mean, cant we have both. and 45 is way to low.

I have climbed quite a few mountains in this State and have NEVER been botherd by an ORV. As a matter of fact I have been involved in a rescue that utilized an orv for support. I don't know where Kline is climbing but it appears he is climbing on trails that are PAID for by my ORV Tabs. Senator Kline Stay Off My Trails!!!

I have been an ORV user for many years. I completely agree that noise is a very serious problem and needs to be addressed in populated areas. Why doesn't the state open more forest areas and work with private land owners such as Weyerhauser to allow ORV use? Look to the open space use by Oregon and try similar use here. Also allow ORV's to travel on logging roads and not ban them because they are not "street legal". COMPROMISE. I know that is a difficult concept for government to understand but it's time.

This ridiculous measure would make it illegal to use vehicles that are legal for purchase and use.

It is hard enough as it is to find somewhere to ride and enjoy the sport. The state/national parks have designated areas for off road vehicles already, and the parks are for everyone to use.

Please do NOT support any measure to ban the use of off road vehicles.

We need increased regulation for off road vehicles - particularly noise. People driving off road vehicles, often young, cannot hear you if you try to communicate with them. Often, they do not have the life experience to understand how debilitation noise pollution can be - particularly to those of us who are getting older. The noise from off road vehicles is abusive to all those who are not participating.
Thanks!
Diane Lewis

YES YES mskr s law to stop this insane noise. I have kived in my house for over 20 years and this past year two new houses were built near by. Both ahve cheildren with these noisy beast. All you ever here is this loud noise in the morning and in the early evening. My neighorhood was so quiet until they moved in. They have destroyed the peaceful country setting.

These people could care less if they are annoying anyone else they are so selfish. It has become so bad I actually wish they would crash.

Mike

Remeber back to elction day. You look at the state-wide county votes. All of the state is red except for Snohomish, King, and a few other counties. Why is it that a few liberals want to ruin the fun of ORV. Get over it. It's not that loud. If you neighbor ORV enthusiasts talk it over with them set up hours of practice or if you don't want the noise go to the darn city where we can't ride. I race dirtbikes and before I got into the sport I didn't care about the noise. I still don't care about the noise. And for senator Kline: motorized sports oxymoronic? Lets put you on a track for 4 laps and see how profusely you are sweating. That's all I have to say.

Washington is not friednly State... Just ask Mr. Adam Kline who will soom be unemployed...

I support what Sen. Klein is doing 100 percent.

My rights are being violated by those who choose to use loud and obnoxious machines. While I prefer to use a rake instead of a leaf-blower, and I choose the handsaw over a chainsaw... I do understand the necessity for these yard implements.

What I DON'T understand is why 12yr old Jimmy must drive up and down my street on his minibike --with an altered or removed muffler-- wreaking havac on my nerves on an otherwise peaceful Sunday.

most orv riders are responsiable and considerate,and we ride as a family.
did you hear kline if iam in the wilderness orv's do not belong there at all-so my public lands a small portion set aside for orv use with marked trails for orv use that has zero homes around it and has been there for decades he says i should not be able to ride there either- people this is way more than noise around homes they want to completly ban orv's no where no way in washington state kline has out right said that and wrote that.

ORV's belong on dedicated tracks! They have absolutely no right imposing their noise on anyone. They come INTO our neighborhood and ride for hours w/o respect. In 11 years, we have had ONE polite individual who apologized thinking our driveway was public property. Other individuals were rude and obnoxious. ORV riders need a brain replacement.

unbelievable, and I thought this was still a free country....we are ORV riders and always respect others but at the same time would not try and restrict others activities just to meet our needs.....Thanks Ron & Linda Dunn

Thanks king5 for showing only people acting poorly on OVRs. Maybe you should show the volunteer work that a lot of use do. spending our weekends with the USFS rangers working on trails to make sure we do not cause damage. yes there are people that cause problems, making laws that punish all ORV users is not the answer. The enforcement of current laws should be enough.

ORV use is not a sport.. well if this senator can climb a mountain riding my bike should be a snap for him. I'd love to take him a long for a day of volunteer work this spring. we will see what he says after an honest day of work.

Sometimes in life there are people and things you don't agree with. Just because we don't fit a certain mold doesn't mean we should be discrimated against. The last time I checked Washington State was a free state that tolerated all peoples/ creeds and back grounds. I have been riding Drit bikes for 15 years now. This is the same old battle of urban liberals hating a group they don't agree with...what they percieve as "red necks" . Intolerance has been going on since time began.

how can someone say they have no damn business anywhere. I grew up on the out skirts of town and there are noise laws already. 10pm is the time where most people will respect these laws. Children and teenagers need an outlet and we keep taking those away from them, in turn expecting them not to become involved in drugs/ alcohol.
We have over built condos for 50+ who are ready to be home bodys and can nolonger handle any noise. so if you dont like the noise move to one of those.

I find it very offensive for a political representative to freely curse at his constituants. The first rule for posting to this site is "no offensive language." Why then is it okay for Mr. Kline to curse "D..." and "H..." when expressing is view? I would not vote for him even if I agree with him. Sir, you are not only asking for Off Roaders to "not vote" for you, but also those of us who have high expectations for our elected officials. Even when we disagree with eachother.

NEVER while out in the VAST wilderness that IS OFF LIMITS to orvs have i ever i 48 yrs heard orv noise!! overhead airplanes, yes. if you go to the forest to escape noise and get away from orv noise THEN GO TO THE WILDERNESS areas that are totally quiet. and heres a hint kline and fontenot: maybe when YOU go to the woods, gee maybe you should oh i dont know....GO TO A PLACE WHERE ORVS ARE NOT ALLOWED! sheesh!, if you go to trails where we can ride ,then dont complain that you heard us or were " nearly run over ( yeah right). orv riders have 8% of the available forest to ride, NON ORVhikers, etc have the other 92%!!! maybe hikers should go to the 92%???DUH!

Well as I see it, we can all get along if we give each other the respect we all deserve. My entire family rides quads we enjoy it very much as a family sport. We don't ride late at night or early in the morning, to respect those who don't ride so we won't bother them. We use approved ORV parks and trails and ride in the mountains on approved trails. I think if I had property I would ride their also. I wish everyone could come to an agreement on this issue, we all have to share the environment we live in, and we all have different ways of enjoying it.

I fell that it is a sport. Its a time for people to get out and engoy being out on their quads and dirtbikes. 45 desibles is not acceptable. If people dont like the noise there are other sources of outdoors where orv's are not allowed. They made orv parks for a reason.

In every area of life you will find inconsiderate people. In my 30 years of ORV usage, I find that average no different than I might find at any Mariner's game. People are people. We don't outlaw Mariner games do we? That is what that law was a back door attempt at doing. Get to know each other and make compromises, isn't that what life is about. 99% of the ORV folks I know would accommodate any neighbor's perceived frustration within reasonable limits.

I would much rather see kids riding ORV's than dealing, making or doing drugs...this is truly a shame, and a waiste of time & money. Keep on riding!!!

Diane, You sure are stereotyping ORV users. We are NOT all children without life experience. I am 46 years old ,have been riding for 41 of those years. All 4 of my sons have been riding since they were 5. I taught each how to safely opertate them. I hope to be able to ride with them for the rest of my life. Senator Kline STAY OFF MY ORV TRAILS. You have 95% of the State to hike and climb.

How about enforcing stereo noise and loud exhaust that impact real people too. I hear more of this illegal noise than any off road vehicle noise. I hear booming stereos and modified car exhaust all hours and when my neighbor wants he cranks his stereo and the exisiting laws don't help my family sleep. I guess a politician must not have a problem with these issues. Lets make a new law to prevent littering and grafiti too.

I am with Senator Kline. We purchased a 23 acre open space property on ag land and have MANY restrictions on what we can to so as not to disturb the environment. Then there are the neighbors to our west which have no common decency to even consider how their "fun" or "sport" effects the people and the animals (Farm animals and wildlife) around them.
Try this, a sound wave is a THING so if another persons THING comes onto my property then that is a form of ENCROACHMENT. We all have to change as more people come into the world so I am willing to try the 45 deciples limit so others can have their fun. Otherwise they should take their noise to a place where there is already noise and play loudly next to the freeway.

Off road vehicles are often used in a manner destructive to the land as well as contributing more pollution to the global warming issue. As I am forced to listen to those people in cars playing their radios so all MUST hear, so also do all ORV riders insist that all hear their noise as well. Except for purposeful use, ORV's shouldn't exist, but if they must, except for purposeful use (farm or rescue) they should be restricted to specified tracks and not be allowed elsewhere.

The comments of the woman that was opposed to ohv. Was that people that have bought homes next to a track. couldn't sell there homes. or if they did it was for less than what they paid for it. My comment for her is, they new that the tract was there before they bought there home. most of these tracts have been in this state for over 30 years. port angeles private track. now they are selling five acre tracts around it. those people that are members of the track have to go to every town meeting to keep there track open. Wasougal mx
carol huffman has to do the same thing all the time. they bring in millions of dollars to that town every year. if this law passes it will shut them down. and also shut down every ohv dealer in the state. there are places for everybody to go. and if they want to make it fair how about this. make the hikers pay a tab bike riders pay a tab, horses pay a tab. at this point none of the other groups pay anything. but they get are money. why

i believe there are already laws that protect peoples right to a quite home. That is why we have ordinance laws. I think that people with ATV's or any other hobby should be protected also. If you keep closing down off-raod vehicle parks and making rules so steep that no one can enjoy their sport then where do you propose they ride. You close down all off-road parks becuase of erosion or other reasons, and then in the same stride you tell home owners how they can and can't use they're land. we as off-road enthusiasts should be protected. we have all these rich snobs like the senator representing the right to a quite home,when the ATV riders are the ones that need to be protected. you take away all of our places to ride and now you are trying to take away all of our own property. GET A LIFE mister senator. Do you really have nothing better to do.You are a perfect example of every body does it my way or they're wrong. Its a good thing to know how open minded you are and how well you listen to everybody's problems and come up with a solution. Do us all a favor and go buy 50 acres in Alaska and get eaten by bears.

If the state really worried about atv noise why don't they make it for a person be able to ride there atv on the public highway? Then they can pay like a automobile. Like the county road and not the freeways. There a lot of other states where you can license your atv and go to the store and get your milk.Just look how much the state would make on license.A farmer can licence there atv and go up and down the road with there atv and say its for the farm like a tractor.I say if the state of washington makes it for a person be able to ride there atv on a county road then that would take care of the noise problem.Cuz they paid the state to make some noise like a automobile!!!

The solution is so simple! Mufflers! Bikes like BMW's and Honda Goldwings are whisper quiet and can hardly be heard. When i can be down on a river fishing and hear a dirt bike or an ORV from at least a mile away, it is too loud. I do not begrudge anyone owning an ORV, just pleases think about other folks and put a decent muffler on them.

To Mr. Mak:

Do you know how loud 45db is?

Get it through your head. It is speech volume. Man you're as bad as Sen. Kline. Lowering it a few decibels is fine but cutting it in half is absolutely ridiculous. At NMA (nmaoffroad.org) events before every race bikes are tested to pass the current sound regs. and if you don't pass you dont ride. We already enforce the noise dont make it any worse. And also you do not lose just a little HP. If you put a sliencer on an exhaust system you lose 1/2 your power its that simple. You do this you kill bikes.

John

my commet to this law is what is the point???!!!!!!i mean my friends.family,we all ride dirt bikes!!!...and when we come across any bker or hiker,Or ant type of anything we stop and wat for them to pass then we move on......also there is no way in hell u will beable to get a dirt bike as quit as a wisper...there should laws not to have it so loud nbareable...but there not that loud......we share the woods to every one..and every thing!!!we are very nice to ever one!

Dear Sir,
First of all I find that LEGAL locations for riding ORV's as well as regulations for riding these vehicles is much more comprehensive in this state than the others I have visited. I am in the military so I must go through rider safety and regulatary paperwork just to enjoy one of my pastimes within regs. On top of that I must meet each states regulations. Riding in Kansas, Michigan and Wisconsin was much less of a hassle than in this state. As for the noise issue the people next to regulated riding areas are well aware of what happens and the noise that is within the area. These personnel have the right to not buy acreage within the REGULATED area or move. As far as personnel propriety I believe each person can enjoy their own personnal property within all legal ways. This is part of the pursuit of happiness that I heard about once. Just as in hunting some people chose not to follow the laws. As with these people they should be fully prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Almost every vehicle on the road to include Mr. Klines automoble I may presume go over the prescribed 45 decibel level. Should driving an automobile be illegal because someone meditating heard a semi-truck go by on the highway. Passing legislature upon this would basically make it illegal to ride ORVs. As a civilian I used an ATV for rounding cattle, feeding animals misc. chores. If this passed technically your local farmer could not plow his field because the noise from his tractor may interrupt some persons yoga session. I really find this issue quite assinine and is being brought up by people who think the rural area is nothing more but birds, bees, trees and the bubbling brook. I hate to break it to them the country side is quite loud.
thank you for your time

Ilove dirtbikes. My family enyoys riding them.
the forty five desible law shood not be passed. Dirtbikes keep people out of troble on the weekends and if this dose pass then more people would go to parties and do a lot of bad things.so keep on riding!!!!

Riding an OHV is something that many people love, I myself being an OHV enthusiast it would break my heart to see this bill pass. There are many families out there that can't afford to drive to Oregon, or Idaho for a day of riding, Kids wouldn't have anything to look forward to on the weekend. What Kline said are simply the words of an ignorant man. We're not all drunk teenagers, I've seen children as young as 2 and as old as 77. If he doesn't think that its a sport, and that theres nothing physically demanding about it, then tell that to the thousands of proffesional riders around the world who do this for a living, its considered a job at the age of 16 for teenagers who choose to do it as a proffession.

Pro ORV, I just wacthed your upfront show about this issue and i Can't believe what is happening with our ORV sport ovet the last 20 year's.
1st off all I want to say if your riding your ORV next to your neighbors and they cant hear your bikes you should stop. I have been in this sport for 40 year, I am member off the NMA * northwest motorcycle asc. We have noise limits that ever bike has to pass, before and after every event, we work with the DNR when we put on any event on state land and get permit's, We work in the wood's year round to keep trail open, safe and clean.
This was the greatest way to grow up, camping with family and friends and trail riding.
I think the most upsetting thing about this guy that whats to shut it down is him saying there are a FEW responsible riders....that is a complete lye and irresponsible thing to say, There is 5 or 10% of any group that give everyone a bad name, I would not let anyone ride with me and our group if they did not ride whit a spark arrestor/muffler and ORV tab's I have been in the stumpjumpers motorcycle clup for 20 years and have raced, and put on 1000 motorcycle events, We are very responsible and more than anything, WE care about the inviorment, and other's around us, I have had many disgustion with, horse, mountain bike, hikers....other people that use the woods, there most of these people are great to talk with and can understand that we SHARE the land.
As upset as this show made me I want to thank you ( robert mack ) for being so neutral and getting both side of the story. I you would like anymore info from me, i would love to talk to anyone about what a great sport and more importantly FAMILY acctivite this is.
Thanks for your time

Russ Norman

this whole thing is really pointless i think. people buy property to have fun on dirtbikes and quads. i personally dont have any dirtbikes, quads,or property even but i have friends that love to ride and ride for hours, and for what i know no one in the area is throwing fit. im fourteen so i dont know much about decibals but i know if they want a law of 45 which is the same as a furnace they are crazy and its most likely not gonna happen. o.r.v.'s are not the only things that make noice, how about, lawn mowers, trucks, simis, air planes, chain saws, dogs, and cop cars even. all those u can hear for miles and yet people dont care about those. i dont have any probloms with any noice around my how and i have a lot of it. i give people this advise, shut up and deal with it because im sure that there neibors will compromise with them and they can cope. im sure it is somewhat difficult to deal with this but come on relax.-dallas hellard

I ride both quauds and dirt bikes and think it is my right to do so. HOW DARE SOME LIBERAL GREEN PIECE WANTA BE TELL ME WHERE AND WHAT I CAN RIDE. When i was younger riders were less responsible and now families ride more then ever. I find that people take better care of the places they ride then most state parks. Remember fellow riders if they get their way what will they want to take next.

As an avid rider this law is Apauling! My husband and I regularly ride with our two young kids. We own property in Ravensdale and purposely bought out there so that we could have space and a place for our kids to play on. Motorcylce noise is not nearly as loud as those annoying and obnoxious supped up honda cars with their loud bass and mufflers that are ear piercing!
Dirt-bikes are a fun family sport...yes I said Sport! Mr Kline made mention that it It takes no pyhsical strenth to use these machines. He is DEAD wrong. Motorcross is one of the most physically demanding activies. It takes strength , balance and mental sharpness.
there must be some middle to where those who find ORV's uncalled for and those of us who enjoy the sport. If motorcycles have no place in the woods, why should mountain bikes, horses, or mountain climbers have any rights to public land.
I have been out on the trail and run into horse riders... we shut off our bikes and allow the horses to pass. and then continue on our way . I'd like to see all the public be able to be able to use all public land in a safe and sane way. Mr Kline Declined to try a run at this sport due to his age? If he's too old ride a ATV the what is he doing Climbing mountians??! I voted for Mr Kline in The last election but I can asure him that I will not vote for him again. I think that this is a MORON!

There is a place for noise and a place for peace & quiet. Noise belongs in the city,peace & quiet belongs in the country. Another aspect of ORV's is that they have gripper tires that tear-up the ground beneath them, leaving a muddy mess and resulting in loss of vegetation. I live in a rural area that once had a dirt bike track that the new neighbors put in. I don't hear them anymore and I'm guessing that they either moved or was told to discontinue. I respect a persons right to their own property but when it makes the locals eardrums bang with noise;it's time to respect a persons right to peace & quiet.

Noise is noise. ALL sources of loud noises that can disrupt neighbors' lifestyles and possibly ruin hearing - both of the users and neighbors - should be eliminated. The technology to make quiet machines exists, but it appears that the noise is a desirable component to the users (look at Harley riders). If the users can learn to be just as macho without the deafening noise, then everyone would be happier. (The argument against ORV's extend to the environmental damage they cause both physically as well as the noise, but that is another debate).

sorry mr. Mak I thought you posted the first blog about the HP. It was my honest mistake. On the show you were very neutral.

In my neighborhood, we can't ride before 10:00am, or past 5:00pm. PROBLEM SOLVED! Right there! Most families spend quality time with each other in the evenings, after the parents get home from work. Well, I spend quality time with my family ALL DAY! They should be jealous!

PS: I honestly couldn't survive without my baby; my dirtbike.

Yes, I totally agree with Adam Kline. I live in the country and have had to live with this so called 'sport' for years. I have never complained about the 'cow smell' or any of the other things some people think we can't deal with. For the most part it is people moving in to the area, just because you move into the country, does not mean you get to do whatever you feel like doing, have some consideration, take them into the hills or some designated spot, leaf blowers and lawn mowers, don't run for hours and hours at a time. If this is the only'sport' you have to keep your kids out of trouble, you need to broaden your horizons. Ever heard of 'noise ordinances on lakes' for power boats and wave runners?!

The existing law of 55 decibels max at the property line is more than adequate. The average car, passing on your street would violate the proposed ORV noise bill. Noise is not the issue; this is a discriminatory ban against a group of people.

Why is it that Washington is so hard to find a place to ride at hmm? Because A FEW LIBERAL GREEN PEACERS WANT TO RUIN THE MAJORITY'S FUN!!!!!!! You go to other states laws favor off-road enthusiasts. It is time for a change in this state. We the off-road enthusiasts need to counter this measure, and push for more riding areas. Off-roaders and peds can get by in the same area. We aren't mean people.

There will always be people who think the world should revolve around them. "I do not like this, therefore it should not exist." And then there's a new law.

I am neither for nor against this OHV noise issue. What I question is why it's even an issue.

When I'm outside, I can hear airplanes, car races, dirtbikes, lawn&garden equipment, diesel trucks, radios of passing cars, chatter & laughter from the neighbors family gatherings, neighborhood children playing and shouting out to each other.

That is the sound of LIFE.

It's my understanding that there is already a law pertaining to noise. Now they want to enact another law targeting one specific source of noise.

To me it sounds like Mr. Kline is getting paid a pretty penny to zero in the OHV, because the world revolves around people with money.

My kids bikes are as loud as a sewing machine. We always ride at designated off-road parks that our orv tabs support. Riding motorcycles has helped make us a tight family and also bond with friends who share the same interest. We don't ride in our neighborhood.
I love bikes so much that I have a street bike, a duel sport and a few dirt bikes not including my kids. My street bike that I commute on gets over 40 mpg and doesn't pollute the enviroment with a bunch of 12 volt batteries like Klines hybred car!
I also enjoy hiking and have to say that while hiking anywhere I have not once encountered a ORV. I guess I'm not stupid enough to hike in what little ORV areas that are left. With over 90% of the trail system off limits to ORV use, it's not hard.
I think if you live next to a backyard track, you are entitled to some sort of reprive from constant noise, but this bill is not the answer.
Punish the few bad egg's, not the entire community.

We already have laws in place that can be enforced. This proposal goes way too far. I agree there probably are irresponsible orv owners out there but as Kline has shown there are also obnoxious senators out there. I just added up the annual license fees for two motorcyles and three 4-wheelers $152.45. That would be a lot of revenue lost if this new proposal was to pass.

Clearly, both sides have valid points but this law is obviously too restrictive and its intention is therefore suspect.

The senator appears to be using his own personal feelings to drive this law rather than truely representing his constituents feelings on the matter. This is disheartening since it widens the gap between how ordinary citizens feel and how our elected officials choose to (improperly) represent us with only their own selfish motives. By the way, I appreciate quiet time at home AND an occassional ride on an ATV (no I'm not an owner of one). Let's be reasonable about this senator...

I am appalled at Mr. Kline's comments and attitudes towards people who ride ORVs. I found his comments rude and egotistical. Mr. Mak, thank you for showing both sides of the issue. I am a 53 yr. old woman with a motorcycle license and riding any motorcycle, especially off road, is definately a sport as well as a pleasurable pastime! My husband and adult son ride off road and are very responsible. It's not right to try and take that away from them. The proposed requirements for such low decible levels and consequent fines would completely take away the rights of the off roaders and that's not right, either. Everyone, please call your representatives and ask them to not support this bill. Don't wait for others to make that call- you have to make it, too. I did.

Personally I'm getting tired of people bashing on a sport that they do not care for. If people were to get laws for things they do not like all we would be able to do is sit in our homes and do nothing. The comment was made that ORV pay each year for tabs to be able to ride, but those areas are being taken away. The hikers, horses and bicyclist do not pay any fees and get to do their sport any where with out any issue. I do hike, bicycle and use ORV’s and have always respected the others sport. It’s time the non motor riders respect us.

This issue is what local government is for. A statewide law requiring ORV’s to be quieter than a home furnace is ridiculous and wrong. Welcome to Washington, home of the oppressed!

I agree, I've lived in Washington my whole life, all we see is laws taken away our rights.

hello,
I saw the story and think that acheiving a 45 db. noise limit would be impossible!. There are no quads or motorcycles made(or ever made) that meet that criteria.Myself,wife and entire family ride orv's and we try to be respectful of our neighbors. even a 98db. limit is still a lot quieter than they allow at races.The motorclce industry is constantly enforcing the noise issues and making them quieter and quieter every year. I believe this enforcement alone and some common respect is enough to follow. I have even put special mufflers to quiet down my machines out of respect and fear of the neighbors. 45db. is not loud at all. mowers, trimmers, even cars are all louder than that. i hope this does not pass. i would hate to change mine and my families lifestyle because people cannot live together.

Thankyou
Corey

The Senator’s car, driving by my house, would violate 5544, if it were an ORV. Is that fair and equal treatment, fines and lawsuits for us, while the Senator makes the same or more noise at my front door? I disagree.

My observations were that Kline when he said"regular people live in residential area"..like anyone else (ORV participants) are not afforded the same process and rights as the rest of the citizens of this state.Kline can be voted out the next voting cycle just like any other elected rep. can too.I have been a life long Democrat/Pro-Union member since my early twenties and you Kline are an embarrasment to the party.I am not in your district but I will back whoever is running against you and support them through donations and volunteer time.This bill 5544 went down through Klines stupidity and the UNITY of all the OHV users of this great state..I have raced and been involved in motocross since I was a kid and my kid's are getting to love this great sport...we need to have respect for our neighbors and tread lightly.

The issue is noise - and excessive noise from some machines in _residential_ areas. The bill is NOT about stopping riding. It is NOT about stopping riding in sanctioned or permitted areas. It is NOT about stopping riding in forests or other back country trails. It is about making it easier and less costly to get the noise law enforced in a _residential_ neighborhood.

Typical noise in a neighborhood, such as lawn mowers, is not the issue. (Though some places have banned or limited the times to use gas leaf blowers, etc.) Typical noise from ag and forestry is also not the issue. Most, if not all of the noise ordinances that I have seen include some exemptions for things like ag/forestry, home construction, home maintenance equipment, and emergency sirens, for example. The exemptions that would apply to this bill are in WAC 173-60, the basis of the decibel noise standard level acceptable in residential areas - 55 Db daytime and 45 Db night time.

This bill is trying to address issues that have come up from loud ORVs in _residential_ neighborhoods. When common courtesy and compromise don't work, neighbors need something simple to address the nuisance from excessively loud machines. The current law is costly and time-consuming to enforce. Note that the 55 Db at the property line, in this bill, is in current law. The added tool is that if the noise is such that it is disruptive within a home, at 45 Db or to a reasonable person, then it is too loud. If your machine can be heard so well inside a neighbor's home, then it is probably too loud. The decibel levels that have been causing problems in neighborhoods have been recorded inside homes at 70 dB and higher. This is unhealthy and against current law.

Dropping the decibel level of the tailpipe, in the bill, will help a lot - and is supported by the industry, exists in most other states, and is recommended by the IAC report. Escalating infractions are to make it more onerous to repeat the offense (used to be $25). Some jurisdications take away a machine after the 3rd offense. The bill includes language related to the issue of civil court because folks have had to go to court to get the law enforced - at great personal expense. It is not an open invitation to file suit, but to create some deterrrent to exccessive noise behavior. It seems unlikely that a neighbor would need to have a law to protect them from a neighbor who is _too quiet_.

I have experienced both sides of ORV riding in neighborhoods. Some neighbors ride responsibly with decently muffled machines and give the neighborhood common courtesy by loading and unloading efficiently and at reasonable times. If they ride in the neighborhood, not only do they have machines with proper muffling, they ride away from any of the homes and off into the forest. Sadly, there is another individual who bullies the neighborhood by riding a noisy ORV unsafely and destroys landscaping, retaliates with additional riding, or gets aggressive when asked to stop. This is the type of rider that neighborhoods will be able to impact with this modified law.

Reference materials are available that note the negative health effects of exposure to excessive noise -loss of hearing, increased blood pressure, cardiovascular impacts, intestinal impacts, stress, and loss of productivity.

Since 1997, noise has been reported as the number one neighborhood complaint. (According to the American Housing Survey for the United States conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau.)
Noise can cause or increase sleeplessness, irritability and anxiety?
There have been numerous acts of violence, including murder, associated with noise.
Noise negatively impacts health, safety, comfort and productivity.

The increasing recreational riding of loud ORVs in residential neighborhoods is disrupting the peace and quiet of communities and negatively impacting the health of residents and property values. This legislation allows simple, common sense tools to be available to neighbors and law enforcement officers so that peace and quiet can continue to be available in residential areas.

I am also an ATV rider as are my kids, and we all visit ORV parks in Wa. & Or. It seems the senator isn't very flexable and is narrow minded. How did he become a senator anyway ? I think the citizens who voted for the senator should take his very opinionated views into consideration at the polls next time they vote. This bill is restrictive and forces atv riders to ride and build places that may not be legal.
Diane's views are pretty much the same as the senators. I get really frustrated when other people force there views on the rest of us and dont communicate and try resolve issues the devide us. As what I believe we have become a advanced society and fairly intelligent. I am like everyone of the other plogger/ORV riders when we come in close contact with other riders, horses, hikers, ect. we respect them and share the road and make sure no one is in danger. Just as if we were in car on the interstate, county road, state route.
If the only reason the senator or Diane don't like ORVer's is the noise maybe they shouldn't even get in their car and go on vacation, the airport, train station, or even the city. Any of those places you are in danger of being hurt by other vehicle's or people, and the noise is alot more than 45 decibles.
Maybe we shouldn't even go out of our homes if all we want is piece and quiet. Maybe we should draft a bill to force home builders to insulate and make the inside of our home more quieter so when we are in homes no noise gets in at all.
It's all extreme and over the top. Can't we all just get along.

hello,I just wanted to comment on sen. Kline's letter!! There are alot of off-road enthusiasts that I hope won't vote for him!! just think of all the local people that show up for supercross in seattle each year,let alone all the people that can't make it because of distance,finances or whatever!! thats alot of people!! plus WE meaning all of us law biding citizens who pay alot of money into the state ORV fund each year for ORV tabs and in property taxes are feeling like our area's to ride are getting smaller and smaller,and more and more dangerous do to overcrouding and lack of directions on the trail systems. these trails and roads are constantly being reduced do to vadalism,dumping and other illegal activities which is not being done by the law biding ORV citizens,infact all of these citizens are constantly working to improve these systems through work parties and so forth.that is why more and more people are making their own tracks and trails on their own property,where it is a more organized track or trail. everybody goes in one direction,the adults and kids can be seperated to ride at different times and it is just plain safer!! why can't we just all get along!!! we have a track at my brothers house and had problems with one neighbor complaining about noise and they shut us down!! so my brother went around and talked to all his neighbors and found that all but one approved of us having great family fun and exercise on our track and we reached a compromise to only ride on mon.,thurs.,sat. and all is good!! I don't feel that the state needs to create laws to curb these few instances where their just a couple of hard headed people not willing to compromise!!! I feel that the senator is one of these people!! We need someone in office that is more compromising,and able to work with all citizens of Wa. And one that gets his facts straight first before speaking!!"there is nothing sporting-athletic,physically demanding-about riding any machine anywhere".that just cracks me up!! well I just had to vent a little and also want to know where all the trails and riding areas are going? I hope all off road inthusiasts seen this and come together as one to stop this injustice!!! thank you for your time. Korey Jones

Obviously off-road vehicles cannot meet the standard of “plainly audible”; cars can’t even meet the standard of “plainly audible”. What are these people thinking? What’s next; outlaw boating and watersports? Has anybody thought of all the jobs and economic impact outlawing activities like this would cost?

For those who say the bill is NOT about stopping riding or NOT about stopping riding in sanctioned or permitted areas. Section 4 of the bill removes the exemption for existing racetracks and almost all ORV areas do or will have houses near them at some time.

To quiet OHVs
Why is it that the ecsessive noise in _residential_ neighborhoods that comes from construction, car's, radio's and lawn and maintance equptment not also be responsible for your listed health and murder issues?
Why does the bill have no language that limits it to just in _residential_ neighborhoods?
What about your _residential_ neighborhoods that are encrouching on MY ORV areas?
Your bill is to vague and segragated. Sen Kline also let the cat out of the bag regarding that the bill does'nt go far enough, that HE THINKS ALL INTERNAL COMBUSTION VEHICLES SHOULD BE BANNED, including pesonal watercraft and snowmobiles. Please don't insult us with your in _residential_ neighborhoods quote as we all know this bill and it's supporters intentions are so much more than that.
Thanks

Kevin, please clarify...the "exemption" that would be removed would then close all orv riding areas, or exempt them from closing. what we understand is that this bad bill ( defeated yesterday) would CLOSE the available riding official areas if any existing or future homeowner finds an orv "plainly audible" from the OFFICIAL trail system! THIS IS THE REAL THREAT OF THIS BILL, not rural neighborhood noise issues. the left wing tree huggers ( klines buddies) have tried to use this bill as a way of banning all orvs from ALL areas in this state.

I grew up not less than a mile from sen. kline's mount baker home. The last time we were able to ride in this area was back in the seventies when it was the dump!( check records for decomissioned landfills) His major point of quiet and solitude, sorry to say is quickly going away! Not because of orv's, but due to population growth. Back in the seventies/eighties we used to ride at tiger mountain, then housing moved in. Then we rode in Ravensdale, then housing moved in. Then we rode in Cle elum then housing moved in. Last year I took my son and grandson to Naches trailhead in mount rainier forest to ride, only to be told by the sheriff that we could not ride there any more. When pacific raceways a.k.a. old SIR was built there were no houses for miles around it now because developers have built up to their property line we now have a "noise problem". If the plight of the urban bear problem is not a sign of developers running wild with urban growth, Then noisy orv's should be the least of sen. kline's "peaceful dream". And please note kid's that are riding are not doing meth or breaking into houses. thank you for reading. curt russell #630

Yes, 45db is way, way more quiet than a dirt dike. People EXPECT and DESERVE the insides of their homes to be way more quiet than a dirt bike, is that not reasonable?

Existing regulations are NOT enforced by counties, I can speak from experience and many, many phone calls to all levels of county government.

Spending time as families is so wonderful, and does keep kids on the right track. But there must be a third alternative, it's not just loud dirt bikes or drugs. Why not spend your time together figuring out how to make your bikes quiet, and make friends with your neighbors?

If this bill would have passed, where would our fine represenatives go to pilfer money from, to do some of their projects? Like paved walking trails! I guess they did not think about all the tax dollars they make off of us from buying gas, toy haulers, trucks, riding gear, bikes, well I could go on forever. I guess they would have to finally start charging Moutain bikers and horse people ORV tabs like they should have been doing for years. I guess they would just have to say "SORRY NO MORE FREE RIDES GUYS"!!! I guess those moutain bikers and horse people did not think about that! All they could see is all the new trails they could ride on without all the ORV's on them!
Have you ever noticed when they shut down trails to ORV's, the moutain bikers seem to take them over right away? But yet they still do not have to buy an OVR tag. I guess they have way too many bicycle lobbiest in the Capitol making sure that will not happen!!
Lets take some of that ORV money and open up more places to ride. Instead of the very limited ones we have. That way there will be some place to go ride.
And also tell the DNR to go somewhere else and steal the $982,000.00 from! Not our NOVA funds. Funds designated for Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation.

90% of money raised by the state from orv's is spent in areas we cannot ride. Every hiking trail on state land is supported by orv tabs. Mr. kline does not pay any money to hike, we pay for his trail maintence with orv money

This whole argument about noise is nothing more than an attempt to discriminate against ONE group!
Now if the law said NO noise in a neighborhood above 45 DB, I would say that is stupid like this attempt. Normal conversation runs about 60 to 65 DB.
There is NO mention of any other source that is to be banned. Has Mr. kline used a sound meter on his lawn mower latley? How about those leaf blowers? No, no mention of them because "they"
are normal noise?
I am all for keeping ORV's AND HARLEYS quite!
I regularly do my own sound test on my own dirt bikes. The state law is 105 DB. I think that is too loud. 96 DB is a much more reasonable limit.
96 DB may not sound like a big reduction, but it is. One DB is a 25 % reduction in audio power.
ALL of my bikes, street, dirt and my snowmobiles
are all quieter than that spec. No I haven't a need for more power either. There is a misconception that noise equals power. That is pure baloney.
If professional racers, dirt and road, can live with 96 DB so can rank amatures!

Don't we have enough other things to let our public law officials to consider. We already have noise ordinances that are there to take care of these problems lets focas on more important problems after all this is america. Be good neighbors and work it out.

I'm thinking that this is a great bill!! After Washington shuts down ORV use then we should also ban cattle and horse ranching in the state too. Have you ever smelled these things? They smell horrible and the smell wafts into my house, this is unacceptable. Bad smells come from tiny particles in the air that come across property lines and trespass within my home.........Honestly, do you know how ridicules this bill is? Are the bill supporters actually listening to themselves? It's the same "I want my rights, but they can't have theirs" speech. This bill should be thrown out so we can get on with discussing some real issues about noise. Bring everyone to the table and discuss riding areas and actually enforcing the laws that we already have.

Things that make you say HHMMMMMMMM...

Senate Bill 5544 in several different forms has been before the legislature since 2005; please see HB1455, SB5089, HB3105, SB6687 and SB6688. Why? Is ORV noise really this dangerous?

According to the State of Washington records, in 2005 there were 484 ORV infractions prosecuted under title 46, however only 3 were for RCW46.09.120(1)(e) exceeding maximum permissible dB. And in 2006 there were 289 ORV infractions prosecuted under title 46, and none were for RCW46.09.120(1)(e) exceeding maximum permissible dB.

This seems to be mainly a problem for Senators Fraser, Weinstein, Kline and certain environmental extremists, most who have ties to the government or are government employees who are failing to disclose their agency and also it seems, pursuing their agenda while being compensated by the state. To date there seems to be NO grassroots pushing SB 5544. Let's examine just two of the persons who testifyed PRO on Feb. 2nd in support of SB5544:

Kaleen Cottingham represents Futurewise as a contract lobbyist and policy analyst. Kaleen is a past member of the Pollution Control Hearings Board and Shoreline Hearings Board, Deputy Commissioner of Public Lands, Supervisor of the Department of Natural Resources and former Lead Counsel to the Governor.

Leslie Seffern is an assistant attorney general practicing environmental law in the Ecology Division of the Washington State Office of the Attorney General in Olympia. Her chief assignment has been lead attorney for the Washington State Department of Ecology's Air Quality Program. Her litigation practice is primarily before the Pollution Control Hearings Board and state superior courts in various counties.

(I'm not going into detail on the other PROs of 5544, the curious reader could easily do research...)

Senator Adam Kline stated in his email: “I would be happy to ban the use of the internal combustion engine off-road, by anyone without a handicapped sticker, subject to a stiff fine. Maybe we could call this an anti-obesity measure.”

Assistant Attorney General Leslie Seffern is working with the State of Washington and several other states pressuring the Federal EPA to classify CO2 as a pollutant.

Why were Kaleen Cottingham and Leslie Seffern testifying in support of 5544?Was 5544 really only about ORVs and noise or is this bill merely the tip of the iceberg of a much larger issue?

Apparently Adam Kline's "misconduct" has "tainted" 5544, bringing about the quietest possible way for this bill to "go away," and perhaps prevent more investigation... Is it because of his statement: "ban the use of the internal combustion engine..."? And why does Kline's statement tie in so neatly with some of Leslie's other duties?

HHMMMMMMMMM...

ok so we buy bikes at 6,000 $ a piece we pay taxes on our bikes and quads our taxes should pay for a place to ride when hikers pay 30 $ in tax but they get to use all the areas to ride in and we have no place to ride yes we are kind to the nieghbors we build tracks and spend time in money in the tracks in the middle of no where but them areas ge shut down and we have no place to ride thanks

I don't have an orv but a mt bike, where noise is not an issue. Mt bikers have the same problems. Eletist hikers, Seirra club types have unlimmited access to public lands, They have the 3rd most area of wilderness in the US, mt raineer national park. But still they want more. They have the power and they almost allways win.

There are no places to ride orv's in King county, I wish there was. Is the entire public being served or mainly people who chose to hike?

I do not believe in what these people are saying. I think off roaders should have the right to ride in designated areas without having to worry about the noise level. It's like people with stereos, are we going to start restricting that too? People should understand that people like to certain things that they might not like and there should be no restrictions if people respect that, which happens a lot. I think that people should be allowed to do what they please. ORV riders should be able to enjoy riding where they want to ride if they are following the rules. Senator Adam Klein (D), you need to relax. ORV riders are not that bad. Most follow the rules and cutting them off from something that they enjoy doing is like taking something away form you that you enjoy just because another person doesn't like what your doing. It's stupid!
Since the Orv trails are being closed, people should be allowed to ride on their own property. It's people like you that make us have to ride on our own property and now your making the problem worse. What the hell are we supposed to do?

The thought of a 45 db. limit is CRAZY. THE AVG. PERSON SPEAKS AT 60 DB! I've heard classical music playing at a old folks home louder than 45 db. There need to be limits but, but this is not the answer. This bill would impose an ufair and unjust law on reasonable people.

ADAM KLINE IS OUT OF HIS MIND!!!!!!!!!!!

Our family has ridden dirt bikes for many years. And every year we pay for our ORV tags to keep areas open for trail riding. The same trails that hikers and others use for free. Other than a state park pass only ORV riders pay to keep these places open. If you folks that don't like the noise when you are out in the woods, buy a map of the area where your going, and find out if there are off road trails or not and then STAY AWAY. We do not ride around our neighborhood, but we do have to put up with loud music from passing cars or garage band practice, dogs barking and people down the street with their Harley's which is way louder than the limit. Lets start charging mountain bikers, horse back riders, and hikers to open up more areas for dirt bikes to ride, or better yet for them to give us a break and find there own areas and leave us alone.

I have grown up in this state, 47 years as it turn into a blue state (west side of the cascades) we are running out of places to ride. AS more and more places are closed to people who enjoy ORVing. The more it is condensing the folks into smaller areas or forces to buy their own place to ride. The people who like to hike need to get out of their smoking Volvo’s (your battery leaking Pirus) and realize that they are harming the land too! The fires in California and the rest of the west are attributed to the tree huggers that say that controlled burns or a natural burn isn’t good. It is being proven that it is causing greater damage. I'm stating this because of our Grey haired Senator who is afraid of trying something that may be fun. He is being hypocritical in his comments of wanting a decibel level set at 45 db. If that is the case then he can't talk while hiking. Per the decibel scale normal talk is 60 db. Library talk is only 40 db. The 40 db level is unrealistic. Come on grey beard. Remember your employment is by the people for the people, not for your personal want and needs.

I grow up in this state and have watched the folk slowing remove ORV from the tag paying folks; I have yet seen a license on a horse. This new proposed law needs to think about all of the hard working farmers who use ORV or ATV to move around their farms. They are a key tool to keep the price down on your wine and GORP that you consume while whispering in the woods.

Does this Senator want to have this nation kids grow up hanging in their homes whispering? This law would prevent kids from playing and laughing while outdoors. Senator Gray Beard please look around, there are more people in this state that pay your check, that are not like you.

I love to go hiking and have never encountered a orv on the trail. Not sure where this would go on but its not on Pilchuck, Dickerman or any of the peaks in Canada I've been on. O yea I also have a snowmobile,three dirt bikes, Two mountain bikes, two Harleys, and a jet ski. I also had to move one time from my 3 acre property because my new neighbors were derelicts. It happens. They wern't doing anything against the law ( that I knew of) just building up alot of dead cars that looked like crap so I moved. Its their property to use as they please, I didn't like it but so it was.
Senator Kline is a cry baby and looks to big brother to solve problems for him instead of solving them on his own. Thats what Dems do.
Ive never donated to an orv group before but its time for me to find one. RIGHT NOW.
Mike Carter

Mike Carter Join WOHVA.

http://wohva.org/

My family and I have been avid ORV riders most of our adult lives. We have seen so many areas shut down and it is getting harder to find a place to ride. If this bill goes in to effect myself and many other ORV riders could be looking for another state to live in where we won't be considered outlaws. This I feel is an invasion of my right to where I want to live. Where does it stop when the rights of one group are more important than another. I have particapated in many ORV events and have followed all the laws as well as my fellow riders. I agree that there are a few that do not follow the rules and they should be held accountable, but please don't punish the majority of responsible ORV enthusiasts.

Zriders

There are not too many public rights issues that concern me as much as rights concerning private property, and if sen adam kline thinks he can impose his arrogant and ignorant misguided delusions on those who actually do know how to contribute to society by owning there own property,being productive members of society raising family's and spending quality time with them teaching them how to enjoy the outdoors, instead of using drugs, getting involved with crime, or any other social disorder which kids are faced with today, and not being forced to conform to what he thinks should constitute a sport.He should consider the impact a bill like this would have on people who are exercizing there right to have an honest clean outlet to enjoy what is rightfully theirs to enjoy without some narrow minded politician writing new laws to puff up their ego.

Something really needs to be done about ORV riding in neighborhoods. People buy property to have a refuge of peace and quiet whether in the urban of rural areas. I had an ORV track that came to my neighborhood years after I moved in. After trying to be friendly with the neighbors and explain how annoying the noise was, I was retaliated against, threatened. Eventually, I had to take them to court to get it shut down. This bill does not affect appropriate places to ride. It makes the existing law easier for the avarage citizen to protect thier right to a quiet peaceful home, and property values.

You are insane 45 db is obserad and so are your comments. we have lost more then half of our riding areas in washington because of jackasses like you tryin to change laws. ive lived in washington my whole life this is a adventure state mountin climbing biking hiking and riding orv vehicles. so you need to go jump off the mountins you climb and stay off our trails the ones we have left

I think that the senator is completely out of line. Yes he has his own opinions but should his opinions stiffle others opinions. I watched the report and I had one question, what about those Harley Davidson motorcycles. I have neighbors that come home late sometimes with multiple other riders making just as much if not more noise than a dirt bike. Why is it O.K if you ride a Harley and a problem if you ride a OHV? If they are looking at 45 decible limit, where does a Harley stand? Just my opinion.

I fully support this senator, this insanity has got to stop. I have lived with this problem for more than three years now, and I want the government to ensure that no one else will have to endure the suffering of living next to an ORV user, especially in residential areas.

That noise thing is crazy! Every body is used to leaf blowersand other tools because its a need. But it should be a need to have fun! So let us ride, we are respectful of you so you should be of us.

Thank goodness for Sen. Adam Kline!!!! Someone who respects peace & quiet while enjoying the wilderness. My parents live on five wooded acres, but still hear the ORV riders on a nearby lot. It's miserable. More power to Adam Kline!

BOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO

I personally do not ride an ORV, but I dont think the noise is a problem by all means! I love all types of sports and recreation! I love motocross and I think that all the rich sensitive people of the great city of Seattle, should not be the decision makers on weather or not ORV's should be used! A great suggestion for all the people who are crying about the noise, get a good pair of noise cancelling headphones! You will love them!

Im tired of these people that complain about noise in outside of thier homes from kids riding motorcycles up thier street.....that is something that im sure local noise laws already exist for. If they have a noise problem they need to enforce it at a local level....not a Statewide level. Thats just rediculious in more ways then one....some guy from Seattle can then be enforcing his wishes to eliminate ORV noise on some guy over in Eastern washington when he is just visiting over there. Its also a HUGE!!! waste of taxpayer money to enforce such a silly problem when there are so many other much worse crimes happening everyday that could end up being even more disrupting/devistating to someones life.

Time to quite singling out OHV users because you were bothered by thier noise while Hiking on one of thier Trails, or on a multi use Trail... in the words of my mother "LEARN TO SHARE!!" And as for noise in your local nieghborhood....do something about it!!!! Dont just sit there and complain to yourself that your nieghbors are being loud and riding up and down the street illegally...start using your local laws and enforcement thats already there...THATS WHAT ITS THERE FOR!!!!.....Quit trying to make more Bogus laws just cause you have a personal vendetta against OHV users!!!! Grow up and act like adults, just like you expect the same out of us.

I bought a house less than two years ago. One of the reasons I bought was the quiet neighborhood. There were woods behind me, and the house is on a dead-end street. Since I moved in, a huge two-story house was built right behind my fence. The house looks right into my kitchen/living area. The young family that bought the house have a go cart for the kids. That thing goes up & down the fence line (their driveway runs along the back yards of the homes on my street). They ride for hours. I really love just sitting out in my back yard reading in the sun and enjoying the quiet...not anymore!

I agree that home owners should not have to put up with excessive noise. The current decibal level however is the correct level. Further more, as a member of SAR (Search and Rescue) I would like to have Senator Kline or any other person complaining about noise during a rescue in the winter or summer since I do have done searches both times of the year. I guess the noise level is ignored at these times because we have mountain climbers and ORV riders working together side by side. Too bad Kline is so out of touch of living next to people that do not have his objectives. I hope he never needs a rescue by me or my fellow SAR colleagues.

This is just another "land use" grab by organizations such as the Washington Wilderness Coalition; and the Coalition Against ORV Nusiances - who seem to have their eye on boats and jetskis next. These organizations are using Senate Bill 5544 to promote their overall agenda of access by foot traffic only in public/private lands.

My experience with ORV riders has been that they are not responsible, considerate, or law abiding. While I'm sure that some are, many ignore the fact that a trail or road is closed to ORVs. The ORV riders often come too close to hikers and walkers. The noise is extremely annoying when you are trying to enjoy the peace and quiet of the outdoors. There should be places where people can ride their ORVs, but those places should be appropriate in terms of safety to others, sensitivity to the damage to the environment, and respectfulness of others' rights to peace and quiet. Fines should be much stiffer for those who violate closed trails and noise laws.

My husband is an ORV enthusiist. Now, while I am not a great supporter, I will defend the rights of people to enjoy their personal property and/or property designated for public enjoyment. My husband is a motorcycle mechanic as well as an ORV "fiend" and keeps his bike in tip top condition. There is no way it would meet the 45 deciple limit. This is a thinly veiled way to "outlaw" the ORV. We have nuisence ordinences in effect and I think they are just (even though I have neighbors whose children try my patients ever weekend). So, I guess my question for this fine representivive of the people is: When will you "outlaw" my neighbors kids? Sounds as reasonable as what you now propose! We have laws in effect, yet our representatives spend unnecessary time and effort "designing" new bills and/or laws. Why not work on our existing laws. Better yet, lets turn "your attention" to issues that REALLY need attention. You know, like affordable housing, health care, good paying jobs, those small, insignificant issues that actually deserve attention. Have a nice day and enjoy your ORV's!

I am a 27 year old off road enthusiast. I have been riding atvs and motorcycles since I was 13 years old, back starting in 1993. My entire family and my close friends all ride together and share the sport (27 ORV's). We mostly visit designated riding areas in Washington and Oregon. We mostly ride sand dunes and do some trail riding in the cascade mountains. ATV's and ORV's dont only serve a purpose as a recreational vehicle. Utility and side by side UTV's can serve as a means of home maintenance, daily job operations, and generally making peoples lives easier. Some of the most esteemed, honest, and generally good people I know own ORV's. We use my Rhino to maintain my grandmothers yard. When my Grandfather was very sick before he died we took him on rides in the Rhino and we got to see him be happy and smile. I know a man who is in a wheel chair and has had a tracheotomy who uses his Yamaha Rhino to get get around his property and complete his daily chores and tasks around his home. A 45 decibal limit on exhaust noise is completely ridiculous. That is quieter than the exhaust or mechanical engine noise in a standard gasoline vehicle like a Toyota Corrola. Your neighbors V8 pickup opaques that number by at least 20 decibals. Motorized sports are not only a right, they are a must for some peoples lifestyles. There are two sides to every story, but doing something like this is a violation of someones rights, and it just can down right make some peoples lives harder than they have to be. Helgeson is not just gunning to put away the atv's on personal property, he is trying to get rid of them completely even on designated state riding areas. ORV clubs and organizations rebuild outdoor habitats and provide families with a way to unite and have fun together. Imagine if you were having a picnic outdoors, you heard a climber nearby on a cliff face beating a rope anchor into the side of the cliff with a hammer. Would you be ofended by his recreational activity! ORV's have been around since the half way point of the last century, it is a large amount of responsible peoples past time and recreational activities. They reserve the right to enjoy it as much as you reserve your right to enjoy what ever activity you wish to pursue. Keep that in mind.

Nothing athletic or physically demanding... Who does he think he is? Motocross is a sport just as much as anything else. There is more noise coming from a high school on a Friday night from a football game's crowd than from an ORV. 45 db is unreasonable. Cars driving by his house would disrupt that. Speaking is 60 db...

Our senator can rest assured that he will not be receiving my vote, along with many others.

Hi Robert
We live in east Lewis co. & yes it is quiet & yes we enjoy it. I understand not wanting noise but what would the same people say if I rode up on my horse? I don't have a problem with the moter bikes & I do think people can live togeather maybe make it off limits to ride after a certain time, but I think its better to get the exercise than sit & watch tv all the time.

thanks Corinne Randle

There are noise laws that are already in affect for these kinds of things. If they are riding there motor bikes past the hours that the law stipulates, then you have a problem to complain about.

Perhaps a law that shortens the time span for ATV's, Dirt Bikes, and 3-wheelers? But not making it illegal to make noise louder than a dishwasher!

I believe that these people who are complaining are over reacting and need to find a new problem to complain about. And I quote, "...its causing severe emotional and Physiological harm..."

Are you kidding me? That is ridiculous! Have you even tried to ask your neighbors to maybe keep it down, or not do it all day and maybe only a couple hours a day?

Hmmm...With fewer ORV parks/locations available, what do organizations like the Coalition Against ORV Nusiances think would happen? What ORV riders need is more places to ride.

I just had a second thought! Lets just settle this issue this way...We will tax and license everyone who uses Federal, State, Local and County recreation property. Now, with this "windfall" we can afford to create separate trails and/or tracks for each activity. Now, like the "naughty" kids some of us seem to be, we will no longer have to share! After all, we are approaching this issue in a childish manner all at the lead of Mr. Kline. What ever happened to "trying" to be a good neighbor and visiting with each other and trying to politely work these issues out. By the way Lisa, a go cart is not even an ORV! Also, have you ever visited these neighbors and discussed this issue? I have visited with my neighbors about their unruly mob and was basically told to go to H##l by the "minister" father. Mr. Kline, when will you be "outlawing" these kids and their noise!?!

I can not believe that we are worried about this. This is a family sport (YES SPORT). My husband has been riding for years and has been paying for orv tags for years. I think the real problem that our state senators should look at,Is.. Where is all that money going towards? If the state would open up more orv parks then maybe the neighbors would not complain so much. I think that any one who has a regular mountian bike should have to pay for some kind of riding tax. Like we all do.You talk about neightbors riding their bikes and making noise for a couple of hours.What about my neighbor who has a party for 3 days or more, has about 50 to 100 people there smoking pot, loud music, people yelling and smoke from their campfire coming into my bedroom window. We call the local sherriffs and they do nothing. So we can not just have a law on dirt bikes and atv's. It has to be all a cross the board. I think the senator needs to get a life. Its not just about him and a few handfull of people. Don't ruin my son and fathers time together and family camp outs because you don't like the noise. GET EAR PLUGS...

I totally agree with Senator Kline. It's the same as the second-hand smoke issue. People shouldn't have the right to endanger the health, or lower the quality of life of others around them simply because they enjoy something. This is especially true when it bothers people in their own homes.

Washington ORV Riders
After watching King-5 and hearing what the senator had to say about the loud noises that our ORVs make.I fill the senator and all the other people out there that walk trails,ride horses or any other outdoor recreation should have to pay a fee like we do. Our tabs go up and our riding ares go away whats wrong with this picture. Maybe if you would stop taking our riding areas away from us we would not have to ride in our back yards. So instead of trying to punish us lets work together to open more riding areas away from the population. Wake Up and look at the real problem. In case you don't know what the problem is.I will tell you. "NOT A ENOUGH RIDING AREAS FOR THE ORVs" I was part of a Adopt-A-trail program were we co-inhabited with other recreational users and it worked really well. Until the land was sold and we lost it all. 6 years of back braking trail making for what. To let the mountain bikers and horse back riders have it all. I still would like to see horses have a ORH Tag stamped on their ASS "H" Meaning HORSE. "Let's Be Fare" And think about what you say.

I support any initiative that will help reduce the noise that is inflicted on people by ORV's. The irritating scream emanating from two cycle engines may seem cool to the rider, but can be shear torture to others nearby.

I live near a large piece of vacant property. Even though it’s illegal to ride motorized vehicles there, ORV riders regularly show up and ride anyway. I’ve talked with many; some are polite, some are not. They all know it’s illegal, they all know its irritating the neighbors, but they just don’t seem to care. They thumb their nose at the law because they know they can get away with it. So much for good family values.

ORV riding is not good clean fun for those of us who get to spend every Saturday and Sunday listening to motorcycles. I’m forced to wear earplugs in order to enjoy my own back yard. I own property, I pay property taxes, I’m doing nothing wrong… why do I have to put up with their racket in my backyard? My quiet will never trump their noise.

It was really great to hear Senator Kline speak about this problem. He has my support.

I’m happy to hear there is a ‘Coalition Against ORV Nuisance’. Sign me up!

Dennis in Tacoma

Kline, you are one sick liberal. Your kind simply want to take, take, and take, from those of us that aren't like you, You won't be happy until all freedoms are taken away from law abiding people. Then even when that happens, you will want more. Seems to me like you and your like minded liberal friends are selfish, and want everybody to be as unhappy as you are. Pretty twisted.

The best advice I can give to everyone reading... if you own a riding lawn mower, be very careful. It is crucial that you take heed this message. Do not ever at any time while using the riding mower smile. Do not show any sign of enjoying the ride. It will surely be the next pleasure taken from you by Kline, Fraisier and the rest of the the self righteous left.

Dear Adam Kline,
are you nuttz???
ORV's are legal in a this state to use,
legal mufflers, legal spark arrestors.
We use them in a prescribed legal manner within the laws of washington state.
If you have a problem with orv's give the money you took back to blm, county, sheriff, and DNR, so they can step-up enforcement instead of washing toliets and stocking paper in the
porto-lets,
Kline you need to get off your high mountain and admit others have other interests, and others also have rights to their chosen forms of recreation.

This is very simple. First, they throw out a ridiculous bill that most people will agree is a joke. Next, they will debate it thoroughly. Finally,they will take some of our rights. Thank you liberal democrats.

OK folks, lets make this really simple.

Your bikes are very loud.

People don't like loud noises.

The reason you are loosing places to ride is that you keep making very loud noise.

You will continue to loose places to ride until you have nowhere, unless you address the problem.

This is your fault, no one else's.

Even the more perceptive among you has said "Noise is killing the sport."

It's up to you.

I’m appalled with the people who blindly support this bill. Their statements prove just how ignorant they are about the facts of ORV’s. First off, the reason there are more and more people riding on their own property is due to the continued decrease in the designated ORV parks and trails throughout this state. ORV areas are continually under attack for “destroying the land” and creating “noise pollution”. Walker Valley ORV existed long before builders built homes on the road leading to the park. Shortly after, some of the same people who CHOSE to purchase those homes started complaining of the noise and traffic. What right do they have to move near an ORV park and then complain? It’s as bad as the people who move within earshot of an airport or freeway and then complain about the noise. Maybe we should shut those facilities and roads down too.
Another area (near the freeway, so noise wasn’t an issue) was shut down due to environmental impacts. Years later, major construction has started and a bridge and paved roads now exist. I’m not sure what the plan is for the rest of that property, but I’m pretty sure it will not have a positive impact on the land. They are doing a whole lot more damage to the property than years of riding ever did.
As for the noise, yes, ORV’s make noise. But limiting that noise isn’t as easy as just replacing the muffler. An engine has to be able to get rid of the exhaust at a rate that will not negatively impact the engine. Your cars have over 15 feet of 2 inch diameter exhaust pipe to do that. An ORV has about 6 feet of 1 to 1 ½ inch diameter pipe to do the same thing. Granted the engines are smaller in ORV’s, but you can only create so much back-pressure. The quieter you make the muffle, the more the back-pressure goes up. Besides, I would bet that the combination of a cars engine noise and the road noise from the tires could be heard at a level higher than 45 db in most homes.
Let’s just “call a spade a spade”. This bill was written to abolish ORV’s, not only from residential areas but from all areas. If legislators in this state would use the ORV taxes and tab money the we enthusiasts pay and provide an area for one ORV track per county and various wooded ORV areas throughout the state, without allowing new homes to be built next to them, this noise problem would not be an issue.

Kline's bill is excessive and unfair to too many ORV owners. The majority of us are considerate of our neighbors and use common sense when we ride on our own property. Common sense doesn't apply our Olympia lawmakers. There shouldn't be a $100 to $800 fine for a 10 year old to ride his or her trailbike for a reasonable amont of time during the day. We rarely do here, and yet this new law would make it illegal at any time. I'm tired of my neighbors yapping dog, but there isn't any law against it. My neighbors use a power blower, a lawnmower, and a pressure washer that make more noise than our bikes. The fact is we all use these things infrequently and have a good rapport with each other. Now our legislators want to stick their noses in everyone else's business because they have a personal vendetta with someone who probably no longer has a dirtbike. The legislation is too far in excess and is specifically aimed at off-road vehicles. It's sickening to see a few people trying to steal away the rights of thousands.

We need more legal areas to ride. If more areas are shutdown more people are going to ride on private property. if you want me to ride in your neighborhood keep voting to close orv areas!

As an off-road enthusiast I find it interesting every time this issue arises. Mr. Kline is obviously on the side of Off-road enthusiasts! He states clearly in his one-sided, arrogant e-mail that he is proud to use the trails our "ORV Funds" built for his use!! I would gladly approve of "ORH(Off Road Hiker)Funds" being used to develop new trails and maintain the trail systems in Washington. Each and every hicker should be required to pay a user fee the same as we do. We pay gas taxes, license fees, sno-park fees and every other type of fee the government can think of to enjoy our sports.
Strap an ORV plate on you're A$$ Mr. Kline and join us !!!!

I do agree that there are laws in place today that will enforce noise. We Race and pleasure ride motorcycles for several years but also understand that some people don't want hear them all day long. We have a friendly agreement with the people around us that we would have certain times of day that we would not ride and it has turned out to be a very positive situation but allows us to ride too. I think the people that are against off road vehicles need to be a little more open minded and work with people that ride than to just keep trying take that right away. There are many other activities that I find non appealing as well but I know that the people doing these activities are enjoying that right just like us riding. This activity has been a very positive influence on my kids keeping them off the streets, maintaining good grades and staying drug free. It also has had a very positive influence on our family because we do it as a family such as several others we have met through out the years. Bottom line is if this right is taken, what's next? Maybe the what's next will effect the over sesitive people and what they might enjoy.

Washington ORV Riders
After watching King-5 and hearing what the senator had to say about the loud noises that our ORVs make. I fill the senator and all the other people out there that walk trails, ride horses or any other outdoor recreation should have to pay a fee like we do. Our tabs go up and our riding areas go away what’s wrong with this picture. Maybe if you would stop taking our riding areas away from us we would not have to ride in our back yards. So instead of trying to punish us lets work together to open more riding areas away from the population. Wake Up and look at the real problem. In case you don't know what the problem is. I will tell you. "NOT A ENOUGH RIDING AREAS FOR THE ORVs" I was part of a Adopt-A-trail program were we co-inhabited with other recreational users and it worked really well. Until the land was sold and we lost it all. 6 years of back braking trail making for what. To let the mountain bikers and horse back riders have it all. I still would like to see horses have a ORH Tag stamped on their ASS "H" Meaning HORSE. "Let's Be Fare" And think about what you say.

Bikers, wake up and smell the exhaust fumes!

Your leaders are taking you over the cliff. By encouraging you to continue ignoring the wishes of your neighbors, meanwhile making buckets of bucks selling you loud machines and louder aftermarket mufflers, they are leading you the way of the cavemen.

Dirt cheap may end up being very expensive to you.

My husband is an avid ORV rider. He loves his quad and everything about it. To him, it is life. While I am not nearly the ORV nut that he is, I do get a kick out of riding my quad. I think this proposed law is excessive and quite honestly, a waste of time and money. My husband works on his bike all year long and is very respectful about the noise. He is more than willing to turn his bike off if he asked, but he expects that same respect in return. We can't stand it when people rudely yell at him to turn his bike off-we are people too, so ask us and we will respectfully comply. And don't think that just because people ride ORVs they are ignorant, disrespectful or stupid. We pay taxes, have jobs, go to school, volunteer in the community, and serve in the military.
If Mr. Kline wants to do something about ORVs, rather than waste legislative time on an ORV noise ordnance, why not focus on enforcing the safety of ORVs on the few trails left? We ride out in Tahuya all the time and it isn't the noise that we worry about-it is the riders that do not wear protective equipment, ride while intoxicated, and generally ignore the rules of the (off)road. Or how about opening up more trails so we don't encroach on "your" mountains?
Better yet, focus legislation on important matters-education, economy, homelessness, crime. I am so glad you aren't in my district, Mr. Kline. I would hate to live in an area where my elected officials would think this is what really matters to the voters.

Go get 'em, Senator Kline! Many of these folks with ATV's, at least the ones that were profiled on UpFront, don't seem to care what their neighbors think about their noisy, polluting, irritating pasttime. If they want to ride them, fine, go to a permanent track that allows them; otherwise, don't destroy our environment and our piece of mind. And they think the senator is smug??? Seems to me, they are more so.

I realize this bill is written to address noise in urban / suburban areas from off-road vehicles (ORVs), but my problems with these machines (and their irresponsible riders) are out on the trails, on our wild lands.

It's heartbreaking to see people on these gas-guzzling, polluting, incredibly loud ATVs tearing up fragile alpine meadows and careening through peaceful ancient forests. As a hiker, I've learned to steer clear of areas where there is high illegal ORV use, and areas where ORVs are legally allowed but should not be, in my opinion. (The Dark Divide area in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest comes to mind.) Their presence completely destroys the peace and quiet for miles.

ORVs should not be allowed in roadless areas of National Forests. Period.

And no, ORV tab fees do not pay for my hiking trails. My own tax dollars, user fees, and volunteer sweat pay for my hiking trails.

It seems that there is no support for familys that are invovled with their children in a positive manner. There are many responsible riders and it is a shame that those are not the ones being addressed. The noise is being over exagerated is not any louder than the chainsaws, lawn mowers, and weed eaters that I HAVE listen to! Or what about the noise that comes from the airport? Our family enjoys the time spent on quads and snowmobiles, involving our children in a healthy activity. It is a physical and mentally challenging activity. Would the law makers rather us sit our children in front of the TV playing video games all day only to become lazy and obese? Seen and not heard? There should be more support for families that are working hard to keep their children active and off the streets causing trouble. I don't hear any praise about that. How about we just let our children run amuck in the streets causing trouble and breaking into homes, taking drugs and drinking.Let them become a problem to society!! Seems there isn't enough of that going around!! We pay many taxes, from gas, licensing, and permits for snow parks to enjoy the sports from riding and spending time with our family and friends. It is a shame that only the negative is being heard from those who have not experienced the enjoyment of riding, and can whine and make it difficult for those of us who do. Maybe they should trade in their lawn care tools for manual ones then we wouldn't have to listen to them on the weekends!

To All of you that have posted about this Sport as a nusiance:

Those of us that pay our tabs,we ride responsable, we belong to The NMA( for those who don't know, Northwest Motorcycle Association) we DO take measures to protect the enviorment by using more and more 4 strokes, we hold trail maintance days where we go into the wood and repair erosion, make sure that creeks and rivers are protected and yes we pick up garbage usually left behind by some hiker using the trails we paid for with our tab.money. There are many riding areas where differnt sports co-exist, Tahya, Reiter teanum, capitol forest and waddle creek.... Mt. Bikers/Horses/hikers/ and yes the all important dirtbike/ATV. We as ORV user only get 8% of the states forest land, yet we pay for the other 92% so thatyou can use it. It seems that with the money we spend to be able to use these lands there are less and less availible each day.
Why should ORV user be targeted . This is not about noise this is about a Grumpy Old man who live in the city (as a REP. for SEATTLE,) not the out laying areas . Maybe his hearing aid is turned up too much? This is very much a sport , If you can't see that by numbers of people that show up for Supercross each year in seattle ... Will this affect the event at quest field? I mean there are people living within ear range and there's no doubt that the noise level is way above the allowed? This is a VERY physically demanding SPORT! It take strengh,(which many of us train year round ) and disipline to make it in this sport. This SPORT keeps our children involved in family time and away from the influances of drugs and alcohol. In fact there have been many events which we have attended that before each race there have been prayer meetings folloing a riders meeting (Cranberry Lake!) Not only are these machines used for sport but are used in farm and more importantly Search and rescue. When one of you hikers/mt. bikers/ Rock climber go unprepared into the wilderness and get lost , guess who comes to your rescue?... it us those pesky ATV riders to find you!
Yes there are a few select riders who choses to ride recklessly and ignore the tread lightly "rules" . and those who do this should be given ticket as they endanger all of us who do this sport safely. and No if you Live in one of those planned communities then no, don't ride your bike up and down the street or in you 6 foot by 10 foot backyard. Be understanding of your neighbors need to quiet.
I always considered myself a Democrat however I am beinging to think that I believe more in the republican point of view,
You should have the riht to do what you want (within reason) on your own property, THe government already tells us how much of our OWN land we can use, and now they want to take away more public land. I wonder where the State would be without our ORV tab money? How would all of you that are in favor of this bill like to start paying to go for a walk in the woods, to employee more law enforcement and Forest service people to enforce this new bill? I 'm sure that if a senator were to bring up a rise in taxes to make up for the lost revenue from ORV tabs you would all be crying foul ! It would be voted down in a heart beat! Think aboout that before you are so quick to judge this sport
Thanks
Kayla Speer

This comment from Adam Kline is the most ignorant comment yet! Not only has he never been on any kind of riding machine he does not even know the amount of physical strength and stamina it takes to use one. Who wants to vote for someone who is this ignorant anyway???
"Maybe we could call this an anti-obesity measure."
Now how ignorant is that? Lets make an anti-ignorant measure and NOT vote to support Adam Kline in any measure!
Kline needs to do more self-exploration and study up on the facts!!!
"Please circulate this to all motorized sports enthusiasts, so they can remember never to vote for me." Adam Kline
NO WORRIES I WOULDN'T VOTE FOR KLINE IF HE WAS MY ONLY CHOICE!!!

"There is nothing sporting — athletic, physically demanding — about riding any machine anywhere. And it's a damned annoyance to folks who see the outdoors as a place to go for quiet and solitude and self-exploration. I would be happy to ban the use of the internal combustion engine off-road, by anyone without a handicapped sticker, subject to a stiff fine. Maybe we could call this an anti-obesity measure."

Please circulate this to all motorized sports enthusiasts, so they can remember never to vote for me." Adam Kline

Why do we need a separate ordinance to deal with ORVs and PWCs? Why can't they fall under the general noise guidelines? I grew up in a rural area and one of the best things about that was the fact that we could use our ORVs. We had them and our neighbors did as well. In general no one was ever bothered because we respected each other. If we needed some peace and quiet then all it took was a phone call to ask them to be quiet, ride tomorrow, or go to a MX park. This bill is absurd and very restrictive with the end goal of restricting ORVs and PWCs out of existence. If you want peace and quiet in the wilderness then go into a wilderness area where there is not motorized vehicles allowed.

Certainly Sen. Kline should be commended for speaking forthrightly. No shilly-shallying in giving his opinion. The Tim Hardaway approach to getting attention? Definitely no spirit of compromise over the use of something he doesn't enjoy. Since many people do find off road vehicle usage a sport and physically demanding, as well as just plain fun, compromise over the noise issue seems a lot more reasonable than total elimination of the activity by the backdoor method of setting impossible-to-meet noise standards.

If a person choses to move near to what they consider a nuisance activity, aren't they responsible for creating their problem? If a person can purchase thirty acres at the foot of Mt. Rainier, are they really just ordinary folk?
Do only drunk teenagers ride personal watercraft? If some do, deal with them, and just with them. Drunk people drive cars, but we don't eliminate all cars to solve the problem, we set standards for automobile use and deal with those who break those standards.

And as for the "anti-obesity measure" comment, I find it gratuitous, demeaning, insulting, and bigoted. I have seen Sen. Kline on television, and he brought to mind "yon Cassius" who "has a lean and hungry look" ...and is a notable villain.

I don't know how many motorized sports (including boats with the dreaded internal combustion engines) enthusiasts there are in the area of Seattle which the Senator represents, but there are many such enthusiasts spread out over the rest of the state. Has the Senator courage enough to run state-wide, so we all have the opportunity never to vote for him?

Certainly Sen. Kline should be commended for speaking forthrightly. No shilly-shallying in giving his opinion. The Tim Hardaway approach to getting attention? Definitely no spirit of compromise over the use of something he doesn't enjoy. Since many people do find off road vehicle usage a sport and physically demanding, as well as just plain fun, compromise over the noise issue seems a lot more reasonable than total elimination of the activity by the backdoor method of setting impossible-to-meet noise standards.

If a person choses to move near to what they consider a nuisance activity, aren't they responsible for creating their problem? If a person can purchase thirty acres at the foot of Mt. Rainier, are they really just ordinary folk?
Do only drunk teenagers ride personal watercraft? If some do, deal with them, and just with them. Drunk people drive cars, but we don't eliminate all cars to solve the problem, we set standards for automobile use and deal with those who break those standards.

And as for the "anti-obesity measure" comment, I find it gratuitous, demeaning, insulting, and bigoted. I have seen Sen. Kline on television, and he brought to mind "yon Cassius" who "has a lean and hungry look" ...and is a notable villain.

I don't know how many motorized sports (including boats with the dreaded internal combustion engines) enthusiasts there are in the area of Seattle which the Senator represents, but there are many such enthusiasts spread out over the rest of the state. Has the Senator courage enough to run state-wide, so we all have the opportunity never to vote for him?

Certainly Sen. Kline should be commended for speaking forthrightly. No shilly-shallying in giving his opinion. The Tim Hardaway approach to getting attention? Definitely no spirit of compromise over the use of something he doesn't enjoy. Since many people do find off road vehicle usage a sport and physically demanding, as well as just plain fun, compromise over the noise issue seems a lot more reasonable than total elimination of the activity by the backdoor method of setting impossible-to-meet noise standards.

If a person choses to move near to what they consider a nuisance activity, aren't they responsible for creating their problem? If a person can purchase thirty acres at the foot of Mt. Rainier, are they really just ordinary folk?
Do only drunk teenagers ride personal watercraft? If some do, deal with them, and just with them. Drunk people drive cars, but we don't eliminate all cars to solve the problem, we set standards for automobile use and deal with those who break those standards.

And as for the "anti-obesity measure" comment, I find it gratuitous, demeaning, insulting, and bigoted. I have seen Sen. Kline on television, and he brought to mind "yon Cassius" who "has a lean and hungry look" ...and is a notable villain.

I don't know how many motorized sports (including boats with the dreaded internal combustion engines) enthusiasts there are in the area of Seattle which the Senator represents, but there are many such enthusiasts spread out over the rest of the state. Has the Senator courage enough to run state-wide, so we all have the opportunity never to vote for him?

I've been riding OHVs for over 50 years and try to be considerate of others and ride only where it is legal to ride.
There is a movement now among OHV riders to make their bikes quite. This like anything else takes time to implement. As soon as an affordable way to make my bike quite is on the market I will be the first to buy it and many of my riding partners will be buying it also. This is something that is being worked on and will be available in the near future.
Klines bill is just totally unrealistic. 45 dbs is not as loud as a public library, makes you wonder how much research went into this bill.

.

It seems a great majority supporting this Bill do not fully understand the facts and apparently have no interest in that knowledge. This whole issue is more about rights than sound. Any educated person would know that a 45 - 55 decibel law is an obvious banishment of the sport / activity. It's not a reasonable compromise nor an achievable option. It's the door to ORV activity being slammed shut - PERIOD!

I am an ORV enthusiast, ridding / racing for most of my life - family and kids included. Yet I fully appreciate and understand the noise / respect issue neighbors must have for each other and the importance of being neighborly. Unfortunately
there are some as with any organization, sport, or neighborhood who choose to be unreasonable. This goes both ways - the ORV activist and the unhappy neighor. Only 1 out of all our surrounding neighbors takes issue with our ridding. Regardless of the fact their home resides over a football feild away from our ridding area. Regardless of the fact that each and every one of our vehicles are fitted with the quietest after market mufflers available. Regardless of the fact we have taken and communicated every possible arrangement, solution, compromise, amicable settlement, physical track re-arrangement to apease them. The ORV community pays taxes just the same as our opposers. Should we not all have equal rights? Im not asking for the right to run a sanctioned race course in my backyard. I'm asking for the right to find compromise with my neighbor to allow myself and childeren to use our property. And by the way, ridding is a very effective way to stay in shape mentally and physically - so yes it does have a very useful purpose.

Don't pass a law that will impower a persons opinion based on preference rather than fact.

OK folks,

Now, I'm glad to see you ORV riders acknowledge that noise IS a problem by commenting on chain saws, leaf blowers, lawn mowers that you say you hate to hear.

Now, take that noise and multiply it by many times and many hours, and you can see that what you are doing is off the scale of responsibility and civility.

Even dirt bikers say they would never want to live next to a track.

I am glad you are getting the message!

I am no liberal Seattle democrat. I am a 100% washington country girl. I say more power to the bill that bans all that noise of ORV's. None the less A noise control of main vechiles on the roads. We use to get a ticket for a loud muffler but no more. the louder the better in this new generations mind.

Especially since I have experienced the rudeness of these things on my own property that is on a corner of main country road & I had to place 3-man sized rocks on it to keep my property safe none the less I could be sued if they were to get hurt on my land.
Also what about all these under age riders who are riding on the main roads to get some where, that tax payers are paying for & have to have liscensed vechiles on them but they don't.

Have you ever thought of the critters who hear things 3 times louder than humans. Remember it was their home first & man took it over. Put yourself in their homes & them doing it to you. How would you like that!

IN my dealings The majority of the ORV riders are rude S.O.B's young kids with no parential supervision. Kids are rude now a days & no respectful of others property who have worked long & had to get what they have. Remember when one person has the courage to speak up they are representing 500 people I'm with the sentator 110%. If he need any help to get this to pass give me a ring.

Theresa, you are 100% right that when one person speaks up agaist this activity, they are speaking for 500.

All the other 499, keep in touch with CORVN, the Coalition Against ORV Nuisances, at http://home.comcast.net/~corvn/
to let your voices be heard.

Alright, Teresa. This is for you.

You think I'm a rude S.O.B. teenager?
Do you think I would TRESSPASS on your PRIVATE property to get in some pointless, and probably completely LAME, riding in?
Even when I have my OWN track in my back yard?
Uhmmmm.
NO.

"remember when one person has the courage to speak up they representing 500 people"- besides the grammatical atrocities you have portrayed in that sentence, there is absolutely no basis of reality in that statement. It does not mean anything. And besides, in Seattle alone, there are over 1 million people. What difference do 500 crabby old ladies make? You banned fireworks already and now that is illegal. Now we will be riding dirtbikes illegally too...in public areas. Do you think that we will stop? Do you think that we will let some old crone take away our passion just because they don't believe in it? NO! This isn't a dictatorship ran by "500 people"! All you got to do is move back to the country if you are such a country girl. Why do people always complain about this? "the city is so noisy" a coutnry girl complains. THEN STAY IN THE COUNTRY!

I am appalled at the comments made by Mr. Kline. He has no clue what he is talking about. I have ridden for over 35 years. I have yet to run into a mountain climber out in the woods. I have never seen anybody walking out on the trails that are designated for ORV's. We pay for those trails with our ORV tabs. I have had the opportunity to be out with my kids that are now grown and now they take their children out riding and camping in designated riding areas. We have awesome family time. After a day of riding we have a nice dinner then sit around a campfire. We have met wonderful families sharing the sport (yes, I said Sport) of dirt bike and ATV riding. Unfortunetly, there are always the few that don't abide by the rules in any sport but that is no excuse for generalizing all riders. I think Mr. Kline is close minded and should come out and spend a day in the designated riding area and see the families and try a ride. If a grandma can do it so can you!!!!

As mentioned above, almost all ORV areas do or will have houses near them. There is no exemption for existing tracks or ORV areas.
Cars can’t even meet the standard of “plainly audible” or 55 decibels at the property line, let alone 45 decibels. The FACT is this bill is an attempt to ban motorized off-road recreation. It is NOT an attempt to abate noise. Those who state otherwise are misinformed or untruthful.
The existing law more than adequately addresses this problem. Anyone with a REAL problem should contact their LOCAL Sheriff, who will gladly help them when the problem is worthy of his time.

You know, by your logic, you should ban all car traffic, because I can here cars coming by on my street, and they've been known to hit people. And isn't racing a sport?

Washington ORV Riders
After watching King-5 and hearing what the senator had to say about the loud noises that our ORVs make. I fill the senator and all the other people out there that walk trails, ride horses or any other outdoor recreation should have to pay a fee like we do. Our tabs go up and our riding areas go away what’s wrong with this picture. Maybe if you would stop taking our riding areas away from us we would not have to ride in our back yards. So instead of trying to punish us lets work together to open more riding areas away from the population. Wake Up and look at the real problem. In case you don't know what the problem is. I will tell you. "NOT A ENOUGH RIDING AREAS FOR THE ORVs" I was part of a Adopt-A-trail program were we co-inhabited with other recreational users and it worked really well. Until the land was sold and we lost it all. 6 years of back braking trail making for what. To let the mountain bikers and horse back riders have it all. I still would like to see horses have a ORH Tag stamped on their Butt "H" Meaning HORSE. "Let's Be Fare" And think about what you say.

"Posted by Robert Mak at March 10, 2007 09:53 PM

Comments
Why do ORV riders feel ENTITLED to disrupt the peace of neighborhoods? Bikes can be made whisper quiet! Is it really worth it to ruin your neighbors home life, and community peace just for a few extra HP? If ORV riders are really such family oriented folks, why do they not think about all the other families around where they ride, and respect their rights? If ORV riders want to continue with their activities, they will have to join civilization and become considerate citizens."

Now I understand why this was an "Up Front" showcased issue. It wasn't to help defeat this bill, it was to rally the liberals into getting it passed.

You had my respect at being an impartial journalist Robert, now your down there with Senator Kline.

If you had done your homework, ORV activities have been attacked over and over in this state. Two years ago we lost two riding areas in the Northwest, and before that we lost the majority of our NOVA funding to hikers. The reason we say NO, is because we are tired of getting our rights taken away as well as being ignored by the state.

If the state would open more ORV areas, we'd have somewhere to go. The state cannot open more areas because there isn't enough money. We cannot charge an entrance fee to a rider for park entry because there is liability if someone gets hurt. Many times we've tried to pass a non-liability bill, but the democrats ignore it.

We're not asking to ride in Wilderness areas, or even National Forest. We are asking for a properly managed self-sustaining ORV program in this state. (Mainly for the purposes of law enforcement within that area.)

Most people assume ORVs are allowed to go anywhere they want in the woods. Believe it or not, there is not one place you can legally ride in King county, and only one place in Snohomish county. No wonder the kids are forced to play in there own back yards!

..and bikes cannot be made whisper quiet. If they could, do you think lawnmowers would be as loud as they are?

The liberals took away our riding areas, and now they complain about noise... DUH!

My mistake, I thought Robert Mak posted that comment. I take it back then.

I am 42 and have been riding dirt since I was 8. I agree that there are some noise problems, but the ORV community is doing a good job of regulating itself. There are plenty of quiet aftermarket products available now. There are some that use our trails and are not considerate in general. They force other milder ORV riders off the trail, pollute, and are just jerks. These are rare riders thankfully.
The good riders should do more to let these jerks know how we feel. This is not an area for government to regulate. A reasonable 94-96 dbl sound level is easy to obtain. Government over-regulation hurts all of us in the long-run. If we let the goverment keep backing us and our rights into a corner, soon there will be no corners left. We will have lost our bikes, guns, and all decission making RIGHTS. I pay my ORV tabs and a whole lot of taxes like the rest of you. These dictator representatives better back off or we will be running them out of office. It's all about numbers. They don't represent us, they represent "campaign contributers". I'll be doing my part to cut off the funds and I hope the rest of you join me!

THANK YOU, SEN. KLINE,
you have been the most influential person to me regarding this issue!!
When I first read about the bill I became interested, but when I read your e-mail I completely tuned in. I wrote my representitives and district senator to oppose the bill, I joined the NMA, AMA, put my name on the clout list and applied to be a member of WOHVA.
I also attended the ORV rally in Olympia and sat in the senate gallery with my kids and talked to people at one of the off-road parks about the bill, your e-mail and the rally.
Thanks to your inspiration there is one more person who will paying attention, and will be active in supporting and voluntering efforts to keep the great sport of motorcycling alive and well.
PS. Hank, if you know who Dirt Cheap is, then you also know that he, as well as the majority of us promote quiet exhaust, give us a break.
Thanks for your efforts Dirt Cheap John.

I see a common misconception here about ORV noise, some seem to think that the proposed 45db limit that was proposed is an actual possibly reachable noise limit on ORV's, IT IS NOT. You can muffle ORV's to an extent (94-96db is usually reachable without much trouble or extreme power loss on most machines, even mild-mannered bikes with stock mufflers tend to be about 90+db). Muffling these machines beyond those types of noise levels does have more of an impact than most of the anti-orv people would have you beleive, not only will it significanly reduce the effective power output of the machine, it will make it run at a higher temperature than it should, it will increase emissions of NOx gasses, and decrease the durability of the machine. 45db, is simply a ban on motorized recreation, not a means of dealing with a noise issue. If this was truly a noise issue, it would not specifically target ORV's, and the bill would have been inclusive of all noise generating sources. As requested, I will never vote for Senator Kline or the other supporters of SB5544.

In Yakima County we don't have the problem of private neighborhood dirtbike tracks disturbing the neighbors because dirtbike tracks are prohibited by current zoning. The moment anyone starts anything that even looks like it might be a track, the county code enforcement officer pays them a personal visit and follows-up with a cease and desist order.
Although there may be a hand full of neighborhood tracks in Western Washington, they don't exist in most of the state. There's no reason to impose this devastating bill on the whole state when it's a local problem affecting very few people. Point is, Kline's noise bill is totally unnecessary.

I have to make a point to you all. I have read many, many posters say that hiking trails are paid for by ORV tab fees. This is absolutely untrue. ORV tab fees can only be spent on trails that are open to ORVs. Period. The law is very plain on this.

So please, stop misrepresenting this issue. Hikers, equestrians, mountain bikers, and ORV users contribute funds to the state through the NOVA program. They all get their fair share. In fact, ORV users get back 10% more than they provide to the program.

I am a rider and I support the goals of SB5544. Most people consider their home sacrosanct and I respect that, there are many that don’t regardless of the rhetoric. 45 decibels inside the house should be totally achievable. But why even dwell on these decibels anyway? There was a time when disturbing the peace was disturbing the peace, no specialized equipment was needed - loud is loud and there is no debating is nuances, it does not have to be rocket science, hence the plainly audible language. I believe the perceived threat to off-roading is hyper-inflated and the opponents of this bill are throwing up a straw-man argument. And yes, life would be much better if current laws were enforced but they aren’t and so part of SB 5544 specifically targets the chapter in RCW concerning ORVs, which is out dated and poorly worded.

From Wikipedia:

Noise from recreational off-highway vehicles (OHVs) is becoming a serious problem in rural areas. ATVs, also known as quads or four wheelers, have increased in popularity and are joining the traditional two wheeled dirt motorcycles for off-road riding.
The noise from ATV machines is quite different from that of the traditional dirt bike. The ATVs have large bore, four stroke engines that produce a loud throaty growl that will carry further due to the lower frequencies involved. The traditional two stroke engines on dirt bikes have gotten larger and, while they have higher frequencies, they still can propagate the sound for a mile or more. The noise produced by these vehicles is particularly disturbing due to the wide variations in frequency and volume.
Recreational off-road vehicles are generally not required to be registered and the control of the noise they emit is absent in most communities. However, there is a growing awareness that operation of these machines can seriously degrade the quality of life of those within earshot of the noise and some communities have enacted regulations, either by imposing limits on the sound or through land use laws. Rider organizations are also beginning to recognize the problem and are enlightening members as to future restrictions on riding if noise is not curtailed.

I hadn’t even heard of wikipedia until a year or so ago but if you do a search on the World Wide Web for “noise pollution” this is one of the results, I don’t believe Senator Kline had much input in writing this little summary.

Other than passing SB5544 what other solutions may exist – well, for one, people have to wake up and realize there is a problem and the problem is noise. Situations like those in Riverside County - California, Maltby, Spokane Valley, SB5544, and the myriad of similar legislation being proposed around the nation would not exist. This is not a global conspiracy, this is all about bad public relations.

SB5544, in one form or another, is in its fourth year. The opposition has fought tooth and nail against any solutions, including the 96 db tailpipe which this year they are claiming as their own innovation. I guess it could be called a milestone.

Another solution, actually an ongoing band aid, is to keep working diligently on access, there is no denying that access rights have been degraded for sometime now, in some areas for good reason but the motorized users in these cases should have had others areas made available.

I am a firm believer that ORV’s are completely incompatible with other non-motorized trial uses with the possible exception of mt.bikes, and need there own trail systems, but I also believe that there should be enough trail systems to go around. Nationally thousands of miles of trail have been abandoned or lost due to logging operations, neglect, etc. pretty much what the olden day foresters, trappers, miners CCC’s, WPA, etc put in. Its time to identify these abandonment’s and possibly secure some through leases and special use permits!

Until we can get the hemorrhaging of the federal budget/debt under control free rides on federally controlled lands will soon be a thing of the past, we should not have to pay user fees on federal lands but that is another argument. Do a google for the national debt clock.

State and private lands are another matter. The Forest Service is mandated by the Multiple Use Sustained Yield act, the State of Washington does have a similar mandate but the #1 mission of the Department of Natural Resources is to generate revenue for the Counties and School trusts, and in the process help keep taxes down, anything else is secondary and if it interferes with #1 than it is a nuisance. Private companies have a similar mission and can pull the plug on their lands at any moment.

Certain companies and Agencies operate under HCP’s (Habitat Conservation Plans). There are areas where off road trespassing/abuse has possibly comprised HCP regulations as they pertain to land management objectives.

Over crowding is a serious issue at most current riding areas, some days are approaching anarchy, near misses with loaded log trucks, pick ups, vans etc. are common.

I grew up near Brown’s Camp down in the Tillamook, in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s you could go up on a weekend and there would be a couple dozen or so rigs, if that, parked around, that area to has become a mess. Is anyone familiar with the term “Carrying Capacity”? we are exceeding it more and more often at the more popular areas – Waddell Creek for instance. More than once in casual conversation with people who don’t have any sort of stance on ORV issues I have heard the comment “lack of respect” used to describe the attitude of off roaders, hear say and a generalization I know but true.

I believe the final solution, with heavy assistance from the industry who bears much of the responsibility for this topic, is to be purchasing/leasing land. Just like the Mt. Baker Motorcycle club, one of the oldest in the nation, whose membership saw the need to acquire land several decades ago. Except, we now need to be talking thousands of acres.

For some reason, land acquisition has hardly been considered and now its catch up time.

I read somewhere on one of these blogs someone slamming the Nature Conservancy, what if a million or so off-roaders pooled their resources and pursued the acquisition path:
The Nature Conservancy was founded in 1951.
The Nature Conservancy works in all 50 states and more than 30 countries.
The Nature Conservancy has protected more than 117 million acres of land and 5,000 miles of river around the world.
The Nature Conservancy operates more than 100 marine conservation projects in 21 countries and 22 US states.
The Nature Conservancy has about 1 million members and supporters.
Also, the nature conservancy allows hunting, fishing, logging, on some of their holdings

So what makes this million or so people different from 11 million or so off roaders?
“By the most conservative estimates, there are at least 11 million dirt bikes, all-terrain vehicles (ATVs), snowmobiles, and jet skis in the United States”

I couldn’t really tell you but the difference is substantial, for one thing one group did something – the other nothing, except for pioneers like the Mt. Baker MC and Olympic Peninsula MC. The Nature Conservancy saw early on money talks and started buying. So here is where I will leave it. Forming a corporation/non-profit club/conservancy, acquiring land and/or leases, and establishing tracks and riding areas following SEPA guidelines carrying the proper permits in my mind should be the goal of everyone reading this. I think this would be way more productive than wasting time sticking needles in Senator Kline VooDoo dolls and grousing about those nasty anti-orv people and forming conspiracy theories. Buck up.

I have went from not caring for ORVs to hateing them.I have a group of kids who ride their motorcycles behind out home all summer long.I have called the Edgewood police,but they never show up.What good would a new law be if no one enforses it ? I fail to see why anyone should have to retreat to their house to escape from the constant noise these people impose on their neigbors.I'll bet if they had adquate mufflers to quite these thing,none of these people would ride them. Tom

Tom, that's brilliant, the anti-orv community can start a campain to provide all orv users adaquate mufflers and stop the sport right in it's tracks. Pure genious!!

I'd like to see this Senator try riding a dirt bike and then tell me there is no skill involved. How ignorant. Has he ever even seen a dirt bike race on tv? Professional motocross and supercross racers are some of the fittest athletes around. I know that every time I go riding, I feel as though I've had a workout.

This is not a good approach to the loud noise problem. I would like to see a reasonable(96) decibal limit on outdoor riding. This is reasonable and doesn't kill the motorcycles power. People who are intentionally loud are killing an awesome sport. And what about street bikes? They are ften a lot louder than an offroad motorized vehicle. They are a big part of the problem too and I think that they should be subject to the 96 decibal limit which I proposed earlier, too.

I'm amazed at how selfish Kline is being. I agree that motocross riders should NOT be singled out. A regulation on sound level that ONLY deals with ORV's is complete and total lunacy.
Motocross is a sport, it is virtually demanding, requires practice, time, and effort to learn. I'm amazed that a senator, of all people, would even consider taking a personal shot at a minority like motocross/orv enthusiasts. I'm only a 17 year old female, and even I find this to be publically humiliating to those of us that base our life around something like motocross. It's a friendship and relationship building sport. This past weekend, a large group of my closest friends and I took our dirtbikes and rode over at the Beverly Dunes. It's one of the greatest things in my life, being out on a bike, racing my heart out, and enjoying what I like to do most.
For someone like Kline to take a personal shot at something he himself doesn't like, it's completely and utterly stupid. He's making a fool of himself. No legislator acts like that. Ever. I don't know why anyone would want to vote for him, after this "show of power."
Not all motocross riders are crazy and stupid. The vast majority are responsible, and enjoy what they do.
If it's okay for Kline to take a personal shot on ORV usage, than I think it's in line for me to take a personal shot and say that maybe there should be a decibel level placed on the sound coming out of his mouth. ;)

This bill was obviously written to abolish ORV’s. Just look at the letter, He seems to have a hatred toward them. The purpose for the bill is clearly to ban ORV’s. This is a lifestyle for some people, and I believe it’s not right to take it away from them just because you don’t like it.
In my opinion one right should not be used against another. The right of peace should not be used to destroy any other right (the right to enjoy a sport).

It really is a sport, and a whole lot more for some people. Here is the Dictionary Definition of the word “sport”:
“Physical activity engaged in for pleasure”
It’s a physical activity, and people do it for fun. So as far as I know, that would be considered a sport more than anything. Not only is it physically demanding, but it takes strategy/talent. Don’t believe me? Try it; chances are you’ll be sore the next day.

The 45 decibel limit is obviously just a ban for any off road vehicle period. He might as well just go out and say it (That’s the noise level of a dishwasher). Even though it is possible to muffle a bike to 95 decibel, Because of the lack of exhaust getting out it builds pressure causing it to, overheat the engine, create more emissions, and take down the horse power to a level where riding is pointless.

My Solution:
Separation - Have properties zoned for ORV, or non ORV use. Where Property is zoned “NO-ORV”, riding of any ORV is prohibited within a certain radius around that property.
If someone is looking for property where they can enjoy peace, they should look Land with this restriction.

Just because you fail to see the point of ORVs, Mr. Kline, doesn’t mean you should spoil it for the rest of us.
I will not vote for Senator Kline, as requested, not just because I am a “motorized sports enthusiasts” but because obviously he does not respect everyone’s rights.

Hikerguy....... I am not getting the same reading on the posts about ORV's paying for hiker trails. The point I see being made is that hikers are using the ORV trails and then complaining about the ORVs being on the trails. You say not to misrepresent the issue so I have to ask you to do the same when you say ORV users get back 10% more of the NOVA funds than they provide. That is TOTAL BULL!!! The ORV users don't get back as much as they put in especially with the cap that has been put in place preventing them from getting all that they provide. Also with the manipulation of the NOVA funds they are in no way getting back more than they provide. Don't complain about misrepresentations and then proceed with a misrepresentation of your own.

To Tom who posted earlier...
Have you ever gone and spoken with your neighbors? Is it possiable that you could work out a deal that they can ride during certain hours of the day and then you can have yr peace and quiet? would you rather see these kids spending their summers out causing trouble, painting your fence, or out experimenting with Drugs? I can understand your right to quiet , can you try to see our right to our passion? This is a family activity . It teaches disipline, strenght and believe it or not responsability. My 8 year old knows how to take care of his bike , he knows that if he's doesn't take care of it he can't ride at our next family outing, maybe if we had more leagal riding areas you wouldn't have them riding behind your house, If this bill passes just think how many riders your gonna hear... Do your really think that this law will stop those of us who have such a love for this sport from riding? You will have more people riding illegally and with that getting hurt.... try talking with those annoying kids you might find that they are more understanding then you might think.

" This bill does not affect appropriate places to ride. It makes the existing law easier for the avarage citizen to protect thier right to a quiet peaceful home, and property values." quote by Nancy Armstrong...
WRONG!!! this is false. the bill WOULD effectively shut dow ALL existing official, "appropriate" places to ride, all it would take is for one nearby homeowner to have an orv in the sanctioned trail be " plainly audible", and it could be shut down! ZERO provisions were made for existing riding areas.

this guy obviosly has no idea what he is talking about dirt biking and orving is a sport and is a very good work out because you have to through the bike around constantly. I have never met a fat person that participated in this sport more than a few times and our saying that your rights are being violated by your neighbors so why dont you go talk to them about it.Because last I heard they had the right to fun just as much as you and another thing the whole jet boat thing is just ignorant. If you wanted to go to the lake for peice and quiet then go and "HIKE" to a lake that is peaceful and quiet. As far as a jet boat being dangerous to swimmers and boaters dont prop boats have a prop that has blades that spin and can kill a person. a jet boat does not. Even though they make noise so does every thing else ex: your leaf blower no wait you make to much money I mean your landscapers leaf blower make quite a bit more noise than any ones dirt bike? isnt that a cool sound on a sunday morning while you are trying to relax. Not to rewrite what has already been said but there are laws prohibiting the use of off road machines on the road and of children driving on the road; and there are noise ordinences in place to prevent citizens from creating excessive noise. You shouldnt be so self centered you have to remember the sharing thing the truth is that you already have the better end of the stick as far as places to go so please dont be a prude and vote for this incompitent inconsiderate elected official again. THANKS
Josh VanderWel

HEy guys!!!! I just visited the Wohva webite and it looks like the bill is dead!!!! so all you Liberal, siarra club loveing people will just have to deal with ORV lovers!!!! We are a strong, family oriented community that will not be run out of the public land we pay for!!
From thre WOHVA site:

Senate Bill 5544 is DEAD!.
The Off-Road Rally was a big success. Senate Bill 5544 is DEAD!. WOHVA received a phone call from Senator Sheldon directly from the floor of the Senate today 3/10/2007 to inform us of the good news. The President of the Senate made mention of Senator Kline's letter in his statement today that SB 5544 is not in the best interest of Washington State and will not be moving forward.
While this was a great victory for the OHV community, we still face upcoming threats and WOHVA needs your support to continue fighting for OHV rights. Join WOHVA today and Support Your Sport!.

I'm an enthusiast, but from a different state. We are facing similar closure issues here. There simply is almost no place for us to ride. It's so busy on the weekends that it's too dangerous for my kids to be out on the trail anymore. Our funds are misappropriated and misused by an appointed panel with a definite agenda of closures. Our very own state auditor released a scathing report on this that is pubicly available. Of course no one on the panel has voluntarily or involuntarily left their position. And the state has not stepped in and reorganized the panel. They just continue to operate business as usual.

For those against people riding ORV's, this is a very real truth for us. We get attacked from every angle, all the time. This isn't causing compliance by the 10% of us that break existing laws, they still don't care, they will continue to break the law. But, it is causing more of us out of frustration to finally throw our hands in the air and give up. Not give up riding, because once it's in our blood we'll never stop, but give up trying to be compliant in a time when we are beginning to feel that our compliance is seen as a weakness by our opposition. Because no matter how many times we comply with the new rules, regulations, and closures, we're sure to see more coming our way soon. We've followed all the laws, we've followed all the rules, our exhausts are below the state limit, we pay registration fees, work weekends to keep up our dwindling riding areas, but to what avail? Another attack, on another front, and another area closed.

There are more and more ORV's coming from the factory modified to be legal for the street. This is because of a direct demand by our community who are running out of places to ride. Expect to see more of us running up and down your neighborhood streets, backroads, highways, country roads, and yes, even on our own property. Once we are on street legal vehicles, you cannot regulate and target ORV's directly any longer without targeting all forms of licensed motor vehicles. We will have just made it virtually impossible to regulate us., and I guarantee that once it gets to this point, you will no longer have such a compliant group willing to work with the public and our government officials. We no longer will need a designated ORV park, because your neighborhoods and backroads just became our own personal ORV park. Imagine the few of you who have said you have a problem with a few noisy neighbors riding on their property.....now imagine literally thousands of us riding around on public roads, and even our own property, where laws such as the one supported by sen Kline have no affect, and we are no longer willing to work out a compromise since we have been forced to spend $8000 to continue riding. In fact, some of us might even now be a bit angry about the whole situation, and have a chip on our shoulder about it. Some of us that would have never even considered riding on private property illegally might find a moment of enjoyment in doing so now.

I think it is in everyone's best interest that ridiculous laws such as this one continue to be shot down, and that the public as a whole works towards everyone's enjoyment of our public lands. If a neighborhood starts to encroach on a riding area, then that neighborhood should not work to be shutting down the area, they should be working with public officials to open up a new ORV Park, or open up new areas of the existing park farther out from their homes. This will take pressure away from the area behind your house, and reduce the noise, and your annoyance. But these continued attacks against the ORV community, that is happening on a nationwide basis, is going to make things worse for those of you that are annoyed for whatever the reason.

This is all from a person who has recently purchased one of the new "street legal" ORV's. I no longer have to take a day off work, or part of my weekend, trailer my bike, and drive to a riding area an hour a way. I now open my garage door, any time I might get the urge, and drive down the street, right past all my neighbors. Where do I ride? Just about anywhere I feel like. Noise? I don't really know if I really care anymore to be honest. I have fought so many similar issues as the one my brothers in WA state just fought, that I don't beleive it is all about noise. I think noise, erosion, lack of funding, are all terms being used by self serving organizations to shut us down, period. They have a big bag of fortune cookies, each one with a different reason to shut us down, they just randomly crack them open and attack us one more time.

For all of you that do currently ride an ORV...start saving your pennies now. Pick up a street legal ORV. We cannot continued to be reactionary to each attack a new day brings. And maybe once we start riding out in the open, anywhere and anytime we feel like it, the elitist that are trying to shut us down may realize that things were better when they at least had us contained to certain areas of our public lands.

Chuck.... You Are SOOOOO right, once your on a street legal, how them going to stop us???

Kayla from Ravensdale

To Rancher:

First, on the issue of hikers using ORV trails--I am an avid hiker, with lots of friends who hike. Hikers, by and large, do not use ORV trails. Yes, there are some exceptions. For instance, I will still hike in the Entiat and Dark Divide, since I cherish those places so deeply. Those places had been visited by generations of hikers before they were opened to ORVs in the 70's. Only a few hikers travel in these areas anymore, due to the presence of ORVs. I find this heartbreaking. The Forest Service opened these lands to ORVs with no environmental review, essentially consigning some of the most beautiful, accessible country that we have to the interests of a few dirtbikers. So the contention that ORV tabs pay for hiking trails since hikers use ORV trails is frankly bogus. The fact is that we don't us them.

Finally, on the subject of gas tax funds distributed by the NOVA program--those funds are generated by people driving their vehicles on Forest Service and National Park Service roads in order to reach trails, as well as people who are not using trails. These include birdwatchers, fishers, hunters, campers, berry pickers, and people just out for a Sunday drive in the woods. ORV fuel use on trail is also captured. The most accurate study we have, conducted in 2003, shows that hikers, equestrians, and mountain bikers provided 30% of the revenue to the program. ORV users provided 20%, and the folks referenced above provide--hunters, campers, etc.--provide 50%. This was a study produced by trained statisticians, and it is scientifically valid. Legislation passed in 2004 allocates 30% of the funds to ORV users, 30% to non-motorized, and 50% to the non-trail people, and 10% is competitive across all three categories. So ORV users get 10% more than they put in to the program. Additionally, ALL ORV tab fees--the fees that you pay when you register your ORV--go to motorized trails, period. None of that money ever goes to a non-motorized trail.

If you're hearing anything else from your leadership, then you are being misled, whether intentionally or not.

Thanks for hanging in there through such a long post. I just wanted to answer your questions sincerely and honestly. Best luck.

This was my response to Adam Kline letter:
Mr. Kline,

You are obviously a misinformed and highly prejudiced elected official. I think it is appalling that you are a paid representative of the people, and can hold and speak openly about your obvious ignorance about the community of snowmobilers in this state, and other motorized sports enthusiasts. I don't even know where to start picking apart your liberal rant you are so obviously proud of that you wouldn't even bother to put your political mishmash spin on it, like you've done up to this point in your career to get to where you are today.
Let me start by saying that I am a physically fit, responsible, safety conscious, family oriented, snowmobile, motocross, and watercraft enthusiast. I also commute whenever possible on my 40 mpg street bike, what's the mpg of your commuter Adam?
Let me remind you that we live in the U. S. A. This country was founded on the premise of FREEDOM. If you don't like snowmobiles why do you choose to recreate in one of the very, very few places in this state where they are allowed, let me think...maybe so that you can whine and complain about a very small part of sport that you had a bad experience with. Let me tell you that I have had bad experiences with cross-country skiers blocking forest service roads and swinging their ski poles at members of the group including children, but I don't hold this against all cross-country skiers who are mostly very good and passionate enthusiasts as am I. You on the other hand are the problem in this country not the solution! When you try to limit one groups access to public lands you are going down a slippery slope and someday it maybe some leftwinger saying that cross-country skiers that are harming the environment and scaring some spotted owls breeding ground.
It is people like you that put the moron in oxymoron, some of the most physically fit athletes in the world are in motor sports, the Paris-Dakar Rally, the Baja1000, the Irondog, I bet you couldn't make 20 minutes riding with me, tomorrow I plan to ride from dawn to dusk, I will probably burn in the neighborhood of 6000 calories, no not 600, 6000 calories, what's your plan for tomorrow Adam, maybe see if you can ruin some kids dream of being a pro rider so he can sit around and smoke pot and play video games. I am not even going to comment on your "spoiled drunk teenager" quote, it just continues show your ignorance and prejudice.
Please Adam educate yourself before you spout off like this and make a fool of yourself, snowmobiling has been proven in studies to have less impact on the environment than hikers, horseback riders or mountain bikers.
I am not going to waste anymore of my time on you, because you probably don't have nuts to admit when you are wrong. I bet you don't have the nuts to even come out and meet the people and families that are involved in these sports, we are productive members of society from all walks of life, and just like in any area of society there is a small percentage of participants in our activities that give the activity a bad name. I mean I won't hold your ignorance and prejudice against all politicians, if you don't hold the actions of a very few snowmobilers against the whole of us.

Sincerely,

Eric I.

This was Senator Kline's more politically correct response and apology for his statement which doesn't really apologize but it is worded a little less inflamatory...

Dear Eric,

Thanks for your e-mail. I've received 80 or so e-mails in the last few days about the e-mail to which you referred in your letter -- some praising me for my stance, others criticizing me. Because I want to reply to all of you fairly quickly, I'm sending nearly identical e-mails to all of you.

Yes, I wrote that e-mail. I should know better than to write while I'm angry. I apologize for my rudeness, and for not acknowledging that a majority of ORV enthusiasts "ride responsibly." I also apologize for insulting a lot of good people who are just trying to have fun outdoors with their friends and families. Having spoken and corresponded with many motorcyclists, snowmobilers and other sports-people in the last several days, I also recognize that I was misinformed about the sheer athleticism involved in some motorized sports. Clearly, you have to be in pretty good shape to maneuver a fast-moving dirtbike down a winding mountain trail.

In this letter, I want to tell you some of the personal experiences that led to my anger-driven e-mail about ORVs. While these experiences don't justify my rudeness, it may help you to understand where I'm coming from. Then I'll talk a bit out the bill, SB 5544, that instigated this discussion. I want to be clear that SB 5544 is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise. It seeks to lessen the impact of these sports on those who live or play near ORV areas.

First, a few stories from my personal experience. When my daughter was born, I lived next door to a family with two kids who rode their motorbikes incessantly though the alley, up over a small hill the father had built in his backyard, and back to the alley. They did this over and over and over again. Though they had been making a nuisance for all of the neighbors for months, I hadn't yet asked them to stop. Now I had a newborn baby, and my wife, baby and I needed some peace. I respectfully talked to the father. "Hell no!" was his answer. He wanted to punch me out. He said it was his kids' way of having fun, and I had no right to ask them to quiet down for a while.

Fast forward eight or ten years. My daughter and I are in my canoe, on a lazy weekend day on Lake Washington. Lots of boaters are out, mostly motorboats, some sailboats, and a bunch of canoes, and everyone's enjoying the lake. Along come a couple of teenagers on jet-skis, chasing each other in and out of the boats at what looks like 30-40 mph, making a noise like a million angry mosquitoes. These kids are going so fast they can treat moving boats as if they were stationery objects--or so they think. One is screaming and laughing; I couldn't hear him over the noise, but I remember thinking he was drunk. He chases the other alongside my canoe, a few feet off. Think of it--a sudden deep wake approaching a canoe, broadside.

If you're not a boater, let me explain why this is a disaster in the making. A canoe must be turned perpendicular to an oncoming wave, to minimize the force, but this pair was leaving two wakes broadside, so close I had no time to react. This is elementary knowledge to any boater, and responsible boaters and jet-skiers take care to not cause this danger. These drunk kids had powerful and dangerous machines costing tens of thousands of dollars, and they had no idea of the danger they were causing. Luckily, I was able to grab the paddle and haul the boat around so my daughter and I wouldn't capsize.

For decades, my buddies and I have been climbing in the Cascades and Olympics. That's what we do for fun, from late spring to early fall--even now, though a lot less, since we're in our 50's and 60's. I can easily recall a dozen times when we'd be on the trail to or from a climbing route, through National Forest or private land, and hear--I mean REALLY hear--a bunch of motorbikes or snowmobiles in the distance. On one occasion, there were six snowmobiles in single file, chewing up a trail clearly marked No Motorized Use.

Just this past summer, I spent time in many parts of western Washington, helping members of my party go door-to-door to meet voters, distribute campaign literature, etc. In residential neighborhoods in Mason County, in Woodinville, just outside Auburn, and in Bonney Lake, there were occasions where someone was riding around and around and around in a motorbike, making a hell of a noise, and making ordinary conversation difficult. These are the homes of people my colleagues represent. We and the residents had to shout to each other, though we were standing on their doorsteps. These latter are some loud machines--dune buggies, quads, and other ORVs, some with their mufflers adjusted so they can generate more power and even more noise.

Those are just a few of my negative experiences with ORV enthusiasts. I want to point out that I've also had positive experiences with folks on ORVs -- I know that most motorcyclists, snowmobilers, etc. are responsible and careful.

Before I sent out that angry e-mail, I had received only about a dozen letters and calls about SB 5544. All but a few of those were supportive of the bill. The people who contacted me to support the bill like it for the same reasons I like it. They feel that ORV riders cause noise pollution that has negative effects on residential and recreation areas. Many of these folks -- and people who have written to me since I sent the angry e-mail -- have seen their property values and quality of life damaged by loud ORVs near their homes. Others are angered by the air pollution and other types of environmental damage caused by ORVs. It's hard to careen your dirtbike down a mountain trail without tearing up the trail.

For example, I've heard from several folks down here in Olympia who either live near Capitol Peak or like to hike there, and they are distressed about the environmental damage wrought by ORVs. Other people have told me about times they felt their lives were in danger because an ORV user was riding irresponsibly on a trail and nearly hit them or their child. A few have told me about times when they have been threatened by ORV enthusiasts who were angry because they were asking them to stop riding illegally on their property or another restricted area. For example, one of the witnesses who testified before the legislative committee in favor of this bill told me that a guy who owns an ORV store near here has been stalking her, and that she is in fear and needs to tell the police.

On Friday, I saw what could taken as a death threat. It appeared in a motorcycle/ATV blog, ThumperTalk, where SB 5544 was being discussed. One person asked another "what's the best way to get hold of Sen. Kline, by e-mail or letter?" The answer: "Call him. Next best would be in person with a rifle. OOPS, did I just say that?"

A friend copied this "threat" and sent me copy. (The comment is now off the blog, but I can send a copy to you if you want to see it.) I know this person was probably just joking, and that he didn't really mean what he'd written in anger. Normally, I don’t take such vague threats too seriously. Still, in the context of some of the angry e-mails I've received, I've been told that I should take it seriously.

Now I want to talk a bit about the content of SB 5544. Again, the bill is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise. It doesn't ban off-roading.

SB 5544 simply calls for the industry standard 96-decibel limit on the new 2008 models, 108 decibels on the 2007 and older models. It also sets a 55-decibel limit at the property line of any resident, and 45 decibels within 10 feet of a home. These are peoples' homes we're talking about. Having a 45-decibel noise is like a small jet take off from a neighboring airport, or like a train pulling through town. Between that and the industry standard, it's not asking much.

I'm not very familiar with the prices of ORVs, but I'll guess they're in the $4,000 to $8,000 range. (I understand that jet-skis and snowmobiles cost even more.) For most ORV riders, I've been told that there would be little financial cost to abiding with SB 5544. In fact, there is no cost financially--unless the muffler has been adjusted and has to be re-adjusted--and in any case, folks who spend thousands on these machines should be able to spend a few dollars on a little Thoughtfulness. A little of that will go a long way.

I've attached a copy of the "bill report" that describes SB 5544. The bill was prime-sponsored by Senator Karen Fraser, and was co-sponsored by six other senators, including myself. It passed out of the Consumer Protection and Housing Committee with a 7 to 2 vote, and is currently in the Rules Committee. I'm certainly willing to discuss potential modifications to SB 5544, in order to make it reasonable for all concerned stakeholders. However, I'm not going to retract my support of general idea of the legislation: to give people some peace and quiet when they are in their homes, and to place reasonable limits on the decibel levels of ORV's. It's possible that SB 5544 in its current form is too burdensome -- that's why we're still discussing the details with a wide range of folks.

Once again, I'm sorry for my rudeness and for mischaracterizing ORV sports enthusiasts. I'm certainly willing to discuss potential modifications to SB 5544, in order to make it reasonable for all concerned stakeholders. This bill is NOT meant to outlaw ORV's. However, I'm not going to retract my support of general idea of the legislation: to give people some peace and quiet when they are in their homes, and to place reasonable limits on the decibel levels of ORV's. It's possible that SB 5544 in its current form is too burdonsome -- that's why we're still discussing the details with a wide range of folks.

I'll leave you with a quote from an e-mail sent to me on Friday by a motorcyclist.

"I am a motorcyclist and I SUPPORT you and your efforts with SB 5544. I enjoy the sport of motorcycling. It is a wonderful pastime. I also enjoy many other things which bring me into the great outdoors of the Pacific Northwest---hiking, camping, cross-country skiing, beachcombing. I am in complete agreement with you regarding the increased level of noise which has been introduced into our environment by motorized vehicles that are operating at a louder level than need be. This is true not just in natural areas such as forest lands, beaches, and mountain trails; but also within our urban environment. Motorized vehicles such as snow machines, personal watercraft, motorcycles, and automobiles are increasingly operated with minimal sound restrictions. Again, I must emphasize that I am taking this position as an avid motorcyclist. I can say this because the motorcycle that I ride is quieter than most automobiles. It has a factory installed muffler. Please stand firm in your commitment to SB 5544. You have many supporters like myself-----including many whom are Washington voters."

Yours truly,

Adam

Senator Adam Kline

37th Legislative District

223 John A. Cherberg Building

PO Box 40437

Olympia, WA 98504-0437

360-786-7688

And finally my latest email to Mr. Kline thanking him for his efforts....

Mr. Kline,

This letter is to thank you! You did more to rally people against this bill(sb5544)than any letters or emails the opposers of the bill could of sent. I never would have been to the OHV Rally on the capitol steps if had not been for your ignorance and prejudice on this matter! I never would have written my senator and representatives to rally them against this unfair and biased legislation. I hope that my fellow riders can count on you to say something as ignorant and inflamatory the next time there is an issue like this.

Very Sincerely,
Eric I.

Well, I guess this is it until next year when Senator Frazier writes her next bill to end motorized recreation. In the meantime, all this hatred, intolerance and bigotry will just have to wait. Yes, tens of thousands of people will have countless hours of fun, thousands of jobs will continue and hundreds of millions of dollars will flow into our economy for another year. Nevertheless, rest assured, the following sponsors of this legislation will do their best to stop it again next year:
Fraizer(Olympia area) ●Poulsen (West Seattle area) ●Fairley (Shoreline area)●Weinstein (South Bellevue area) ●Jacobsen (North Seattle area) ●Franklin (Lakewood area)●Kline (Renton/Rainier Valley area) ●Hunt (Olympia area) ●Dickerson (Ballard area) ●Williams (Olympia area) ●Chase (Lake Forest Park area) ● Kagi (Lake Forest Park area) ●Kenney (Northgate/Lake City area) ●Lantz (Kitsap County area)

I finally watched the King 5 Up Front video online at their web site. I was not quite impressed with the balance that others felt was there. It was not as bad as it could of been but I felt it had cleverly softened Klines position to make it appear more reasonable.

They didn't once bring up that Kline had to be on motorized trails to run into motorized ORV. They didn't ask him why he didn't restrict his hiking to the far more numerous areas that don't allow ORV. They just left the impression that Kline was innocently hiking and that he could not escape ORV noise. If Kline and the other bill sponsors were so concerned about internal combustion engine sound why do they deliberately go where they will run into internal combustion sound. To me the answer is obvious. They wanted to be able to make up stories about how their solitude was disturbed, which they could not make up if they hiked in the NO ORV areas. In my book that is completely dishonest.

The thing is I think they will win the hearts of the public by deceiving the public into believing there is no place for a person to go where they can get away from ORV noise. Just the opposite is the real truth. There are very few places you can go to hear ORV noise. The majority of our forest is off limits to ORV but not to hikers. The question that was never asked is why did Kline chose to be where he would hear ORV noise when he could have hiked in one of the many no ORV areas? That question would have exposed his deception to everyone.

Residential noise, which is the other side of this bill is also based on dishonesty. Whenever you must resort to the exception to the rule to prove your point your admitting to the weakness of your point.

What am I talking about? They talk about ORV users building tracks in their back yards and then racing around on these tracks for hours and hours driving their neighbors nuts. But how many ORV owners actually build tracks in their back yards? Maybe you could find 10 in the whole state (I don't even know of 10 - I'm being generous). Ten out of thousands upon thousands of ORV users. The huge, massive majority of ORV users would never build a track in their back yards. Most of us do not have back yards large enough to turn an ORV around in.

So these bill sponsors deliberately deceive the public into thinking that the majority or at least a large number of ORV owners have tracks in their back yard. The public is left thinking if their neighbor buys an ORV it is almost a sure thing he will build a track. That being true, we need to make a law regulating this huge number of residential ORV owners because of this common practice they have of building tracks where ever they live. But that is the whole point here, it isn't true. This is a stupid political deception used to fulfill a personal vendetta against ORV owners and I am being nice about it. There are already laws on the books which will deal with the few rude ORV owners in residential areas.

What should be done to elected officials that waste our tax dollars formulating bills to regulate 10 home owners in the state of Washington? What should we do to elected officials who deceive folks into thinking 10 equals hundreds or even thousands. Is it any wonder our children are not doing well in math with these fine examples of math illiteracy running our state?

I have one suggestion for our fine feathered political leaders who sponsored this bill. Go back to High School because you graduated without the basics. We know you are expert politicians but your math sucks.

We need to be painfully aware that SB5544 is not dead yet. It was on the calendar this morning for the senate.

"so they can remember never to vote for me."

Consider it done. I'll remember.

I work for a law enforcement agency in this state. What I have found over my 12 year career is that people don't tolerate other people that do something different than they do. The population of most of the cities are expanding further and further into rural areas, where people traditionally used to go to ride, target shoot, hunt and camp. Now all these new residense are calling 911 because they hear these loud and scary noises. They are managing to get laws passed to make certain passtimes illegal. However, lawmakers make unprosecutable laws to pacify a few whiners. The Senators preposed law says the machines can only emmit 45db. What most people don't know is there are no decible meters available to the officer and no funding to get them.

My own personal experience with intolerance was, I was 50 miles out in the woods target shooting with friends in Pierce County. There were 8 of us. We were shooting into an dirt bank to contain our bullets so that we were shooting safe and we were at the end of a logging road so we knew no one would drive up down range. A couple from Seattle drove up behind us. They got out of their vehicle and asked us if they could pass by and hike in the woods down where we were shooting. We told them they could walk down range and we would hold our fire for 30 minutes so they would be down the trail. They then asked us to move our vehicles so they could park down by our targets. When we said no because we couldn't shoot safely with their vehicle parked next to our targets, they got mad and told us to go shoot someplace else. They argued that they deserved to use the pulic land more than we did because shooting is bad.

As tolerant as people like to think they are, half my job is just trying to mediate peoples intolerance with others. Remember the Constitution says everyone has the right to persue happiness in their own way.

Hikerguy......Regarding the hikers using the ORV trails, I think most of the responses above are about hikers that are using ORV trails, not about ORV tabs paying for hiking trails. You admit hikers use ORV trails to some degree but not much in your opinion. Sen. Kline mentions running into ORVs on the ORV trails. He doesn't say where so we can't speculate on if ORVs should or shouldn't be there. I and others have experienced hikers, horses and bikers on trails. At least in my neck of the woods it appears that most are compatible with each other. Maybe hardcore hikers like you wouldn't do it but there are many other hikers who do hike ORV trails and actually enjoy them.

As far as the NOVA program lets just say we will have to disagree. The NOVA committee had agreed how to split up the gas money but the hikers went to the legislature and rewrote the NOVA program. When you only have 1 group of the 6 involved with NOVA rewriting the program lets just say it is now a very biased NOVA program.

That is just my independent reading on the subject. I have no leadership that is telling me anything at this time.

Now back to Sen. Kline stating "Having a 45-decibel noise is like a small jet take off from a neighboring airport, or like a train pulling through town." On the Upfront program it was interesting to see a dishwasher running at 54 decibels and they were easily having a conversation over it and that is TWICE as loud as what the ORV would have been allowed. Obviously Sen. Kline is trying to misrepresent what 45 decibels truly sounds like.

Rancher:

The fact that hikers do not use ORV trails in any considerable numbers is not my opinion. It is a fact, backed up by surveys.

Also, the legislation that changed the NOVA disbursement was the result of a consenus process that included three ORV users, two hikers, an equestrian, a mountain bikers, two non-trail people, four legislators, and a number of agency folks. Everyone, including the motorized users agreed to the final product, and that was what was used to change the NOVA allocations. The legislation perfectly matched the recommendations of the Committee. So it was most definitely not one group that did this. The legislation had a number of sponsors in both the House and Senate, from both sides of the aisle, including Representative Cary Condotta, who owns a motorsports dealership in Wenatchee, and is one of the leading proponents of motorized recreation in the state.

This is all a matter of record. It's easy to look up. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

All of you trying to ban ORV riding are completely insane to put it nicely. It is a sport we enjoy. You don't see us complaining about the drunk guys that play basketball in their driveway until 4 in the morning screaming and yelling so much nonsense it is nearly unbearable. ORV's are a part of technology, deal with it. We pay thousands of dollars for our quads or motorcycles, and we deserve the right to use them. Let's say you're a HUGE football fan and you live 2 miles from a professional dome. Are you going to complain and propose to have the place shut down because of all the noise before, after, and during the games? I didn't think so. Quit trying to ruin our sport just because you don't like it. We have just as much right to enjoy our sport as much as any other sport enthusiast. And if you don't like it around your home, simply ask the person riding it. Don't punish the entire sport. There's another good one: any pit bull lovers?. Don't punish the breed, correct? Well this is the exact same, but our sport does no physical harm to anyone except us, and that is our business.

All we want is a place for our kids to ride their dirtbike I don't think that is to much to ask. We arent asking to ride in your backyard and its not like we are riding at 11 and 12 at nite. Its a day activity for parents or grandparents in my situation to spend time with the kids and grandkids. I would much rather my son be riding his dirtbike then hanging out with bad news kids and creating a worse enviroment then we already have. Think about if if there were more places to ride close to home and a program to get kids involved dont you think there would be a little less crime. Just like people love to ride there horses my son loves to ride his dirtbike and shouldnt have to drive in the car with this grandpa for 3 hours just to find a place that says "ok". Again we arent asking to ride in your backyard in the middle of the night. We just asking for a place close to home to spend quailty time as a family enjoying something that we LOVE!!!!!

I cannot believe the ignorance of Adam Kline. Obviously he has a strong opinion on noise levels. However, isn't he supposed to be nuteral and find some common ground. I don't why it should be such a problem to have a decicated place for family and friends to go ride. Isn't it better and more productive to enjoy activities with your kids that they love rather than just letting kids run the streets because it is easier. I cannot believe people these days. Complain, complain, complain. Hey Kline why don't you come up with a good solution for EVERYONE and not just YOURSELF. What a selfish ignorant jerk!!!!!! Not to worry I WON'T vote for him!!!!

MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS ALL RIDE TOGETHER, IT IS OUR FAVORITE HOBBY. WE
ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AND STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS
BILL. RIDING AN ATV OR ORV IS A SPORT, AND IT DOES TAKE PHSYICAL STRENGTH AND MOTOR SKILLS TO OPERATE ONE OF THESE MACHINES.THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE OUT THERE, BUT THAT IS WITH ANY SPORT OR ACTIVITY. WHY SINGLE OUT ATV AND ORV RIDERS, WE SHOULDN'T BE JUDGED AS A WHOLE DUE TO A FEW NOISE COMPLAINTS. THERE ARE SO MANY BIGGER ISSUES THAN THIS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND THIS BILL SEEMS LIKE A COWARDLY WAY OUT FOR SENATOR ADAM KLINE, INSTEAD OF DIRECTLY DEALING WITH THE FEW WHO HAVE AFFECTED HIS LIFE HE HAS TO CREATE A BILL TO AFFECT EVERY ATV & ORV RIDER IN WASHINGTON STATE. I AM SURE THAT IF THIS WAS A SPORT THAT HE ENJOYED WITH HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY
THERE WOULD BE NO BILL AND NO PROBLEM!!! MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS WILL NEVER VOTE FOR ADAM KLINE!! I LOVE ATV'S AND ATV RIDERS, I WILL NEVER STOP RIDING!!!!!!!!

I like this stuff

How exactly does someone endanger your life with an ORV while you were mountain climbing Mr. Kline? Did they throw it off of the cliff above you?
It must be neat to be a senator huh?
I'd ban Tuesdays, the color yellow, paper cuts and tomatoes because well, I just don't like them. They annoy me; therefore no one should get to enjoy them.
Rap music is more of a nuisance than a dirt bike. Ban it!
But wait, that would be singling out a specific group of the community with prejudice and with no regard for the preservation their culture.
Exactly.

Much like the community of ORV riders.

This is for you hiker guy,
Maybe you will consider the funding issue better if it's put to you with an example. The same ammount of money, and do to the increase of the sport, even MORE comes from "us ORV people" to NOVA, do to the increase of sales, gas and usage of ORV's, correct? The land we have to ride is getting less. How do you see that you are paying your fair share when WE are paying more FOR LESS? This is how some of us feel our money is being misused, it's not going for increased riding places it's for other peoples use.

I am a 27 year old disabled man who is a enthustaic outdoors person. I love to get out with my Mastiff to enjoy a beatiful day at my local park. I do archery that also gets me out in the woods and my other passion is riding a ATV. When I ride one, I feel free from the limits of my wheelchair and disability. My wheelchair can only go 15 miles before the battery dies, then what do I do? I have to end my day and charge the stupid thing. Not with a ATV, riding a ATV gives me the opportunity to get out and see nature in a different way, most ATVs that I have ridden are much quieter then a Harley Davidson which are extremely loud, I know this because my stepfather has one. One of the best days I ever had in my life was riding on a 3,000 foot mountain on a friends property in CA, the views were something that I never saw before. I brought my manual wheelchair which no doubt limited me in how far I could go on the guys 30 acres, not beyond the drive way. His ATV allowed me to explore and ride on a gorgeous day. I got a workout because I had to control my body while riding, great combo, workout and nature plus I got blasted by the sun which caused me to sweat like crazy. I will never forget that day. Someday I hope to earn enough money to buy a ATV so I can go out and enjoy nature in a safe way. It is so much more fun then sitting in the house playing video games or doing computer stuff. Please do not limit our rights, the potsmoking tree huggers want to outlaw any hobbies that take us into nature, what are we supposed to do when that happens? Stay at home all the time and watch the kids become uninterested in nature because tree huggers have brainwashed them.

I must say,Jeremy, we also deal with similar circumstances... my husband and I have a son with an incurable disease. This disease effects his physical stature as well as his stanima. Along with his condition is lung disease, he simply does not have the ability to keep up with his peers on an equal basis. He loves sports and we do absolutely encourage him to participate, such as baseball, track, and he wants to get into football. He does Ok, certainly not at the same level as his teammates. Football at this point seems out of the question as he is far too small even though he is quick in short distance. My point is this... when he rides his Quad and his dirt bike he is equal with his riding group. It is one time his health does not hold him back. He has lived with this since birth, he is used to being seen as different than other kids. When he's in his full riding gear he is just one of the guy's. WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE TAKEN FROM HIM! This is his time to shine and wear a smile... just like you Jeremy. We will fight to keep these rights for our son, for you, and all of us. Thanks for your "say".

Sen Kline

You are the type of person that wants all the perks for a few skinny skiers and hikers. If you had a brain larger than 45 DB you might know that the people that ride ATVs pay for you to use the Mountains and hiking trails. If you recall you people only pay for a trailhead pass. We pay for licensing and a percentage of the gas tax to maintain these systems. Like most greenies you want everything for nothing. If it weren't for snowmobiles there would be no groomed trail for you to use! What part of the rich do you think you are. Your time is limited because not only Rep ride and play you IDIOT

DAN

Who ever said riding these motor vehicles is not a sport and is not physiccal, never operated and ATV or motorcycle, etc. The majority of riders are responsible, and respectable and abide by the current noise law. Don't destroy a great family activity because of the minority who are complaining about something they know nothing about.

"I live near a large piece of vacant property. Even though it’s illegal to ride motorized vehicles there, ORV riders regularly show up and ride anyway. I’ve talked with many; some are polite, some are not. They all know it’s illegal, they all know its irritating the neighbors, but they just don’t seem to care. They thumb their nose at the law because they know they can get away with it. So much for good family values."

-Did you call the police? Since it is illegal t ride there, this should have been an easy problem to solve.

"And no, ORV tab fees do not pay for my hiking trails. My own tax dollars, user fees, and volunteer sweat pay for my hiking trails."

-Do some research. You are wrong.

HikerGuy, are you going to provide sources, or keep spewing your view on the facts? Anything can be interpreted so that it agrees with a person's point of view.

"I live near a large piece of vacant property. Even though it’s illegal to ride motorized vehicles there, ORV riders regularly show up and ride anyway. I’ve talked with many; some are polite, some are not. They all know it’s illegal, they all know its irritating the neighbors, but they just don’t seem to care. They thumb their nose at the law because they know they can get away with it. So much for good family values."

-Did you call the police? Since it is illegal t ride there, this should have been an easy problem to solve.

"And no, ORV tab fees do not pay for my hiking trails. My own tax dollars, user fees, and volunteer sweat pay for my hiking trails."

-Do some research. You are wrong.

HikerGuy, are you going to provide sources, or keep spewing your view on the facts? Anything can be interpreted so that it agrees with a person's point of view.

The Maltby community needlessly suffered in the Spring of 2006 when the company MXGP attempted to place an ORV/motocross racetrack in an existing residential area. Visualize up to 50 concurrent riders, throttles pinned (engines running to the max), thousands of spectators, and insufficient parking. All of this in an existing residential area.

Our community was stunned to learn that minimal laws (with substance/teeth) exist to protect the sanctity of our homes. We defeated the proposal on a zoning technicality. Now MXGP is trying to place the racetrack just Northeast of Granite Falls, so a FYI to anyone living near Granite Falls.

Click on my name (below) for a website with plenty of history on the proposal.

ORVs are overly noisy and should be at least no louder than a lawn mower. I believe most ORV riders are lawful, considerate people, but there are those that don't ride on allowed trails and have no concern about sensitive flora and fauna. They make ruts and trails through areas that should be left alone. They chase wildlife. The ORV people need to police their own.

Believe me Lou, we in the ORV comunity are "PULLING OUR HAIR OUT" trying to police our "own"in regards to all you are saying. Valid points that we continually watch for. The ORV community has improved our communication and behavior tremendously over the last few years and expect to continue the fight against ignorance and poor decision making.

I just want to say that it is not fair to judge a whole community based on what a couple of people have done in the past. I know that there are a lot of tree huggers here in our state that think that everyone who owns an OHV is a piece of white trash and unsophisticated, but I want you to know that I have 4 sons and they all ride. 3 of them are in school and are in excellerated classes for kids who are just to smart for the regular stuff. They are very active in their communities with sports, scouts, church, as well as giving service in homeless shelters. They do not spend their days getting into trouble or watching tv or playing on the internet They are 3 6 8 and 11 and are some of the most responsible goal oriented children you will meet. I think that the problem lies with the 'noisy legislators' as opposed to the noisy OHV riders. I feel that a very easy solution to this problem is to simply open up land for the use of OHV and then tell the tree huggers to stay away from the 'dangerous' OHV parks. There are many places for people to hike and bike and climb but there aren't many places for family to ride anymore so often times our homes are our only opportunity. I know that our home has been the primary place that each of our cihldren have learned the basic skills of OHV's under strict guidance of parents and other guardians. without this at-home training we could never have taken them out to ride at an OHV park. I'm not saying that people should be allowed to ride at all hours of the day and night and all over peoples gardens and such, but I think that in your own yard you should be able to ride for reasonable amounts of time. Those who are not interested in that sort of lifestyle or neighborhood should probably look into a community for the elderly(55+), another community with CCR's or even a plot of 20 acres with your home in the middle. Meanwhile we will continue to be the most liberal state in the union and get pushed around by the 'noisy' minority as opposed to doing whats right.

what about lawnmowers and chainsaws? if your going to ban that then you should ban using them to...
atvs and dirtbikes arent even loud,
you are just upset that you dont have one to ride yourself or you dont know how to ride, so you have to ruin it for everyone else.

have you ever heard of earplugs????

So we want to talk about noise problems? My family loves the outdoors as much as I do. We enjoy riding,hiking,hunting,fishing,and about every other activity out there.How do you think we wake up in the mornings . That must be that noisy alarm clock that wakes me up and tells me its time to go to work.You think my quads exhaust is bad ? Well when that neighbor comes down my street on his dirt bike on his way to the river I dont want to throw him on the ground like I do with my alarm clock I simply wave . Noise, whats noise, is that what I wake up to every morning when a train goes by rattling my windows.So whats that on the decible meter? I think that people are losing there minds. Or what about when I wake up to the construction next door? I cant even believe this, this must be a nightmare. How many things can you think of that make noise? I cant keep track of them all because everything makes noise.Its hard for me to listen to this because it sounds like my freedom and rights are being violated. This is something special that I wish every family could enjoy together. Now it sounds like my future family will never get the chance that me and you get every day. My family and I take trips every year to the dunes or to orv parks such as capital forest or Belfair. I just wish more of us could have the chance that me and my family and friends have had. So I will continue ridining along with the other activities my family and friends enjoy.

The ATV supporters are simply TSTL. Personally I think we should have an open season on them except that as loud and obnoxious as they are they wouldn't even make challenging targets. IF YOU CAN'T ENJOY THE OUTDOORS WITHOUT A MOTOR, STAY HOME.
fastjerry

Now that SB5544 Bill is dead, those of us in Thurston County still have a noise ordinance that restricts us from using our own property. An ordinance of 55db at the property line is just as rediculous. It is bascically uninforceable and steals valuable time away from local law enforcement to respond to neighbor complaints. Law enforcement are not equiped to take sound readings. So what's left, we will have more and more lawsuites cropping up for our tax dollars to support. Neighbors pestering one another, gathering infromation, taking pictures, attempting to record their own decibel readings (which will be inaccurate)constantly calling the Sheriff until it ultimately ends up in court.

What a waste! Would'nt laws in place that effectively and realisticly provide compromise for both parties be a better choice. When one persons perceived rights are imposed or forced upon anothers---there will always be conflict.

Fastjerry's post just supported one point we ATV supporters have been trying to make. There are bad apples in every bunch. And just as we don't want the few ATV riders who are damaging our reputations by being inconsiderate to ruin it for the rest of us; I bet the people supporting this bill would not want to be lumped into the same group as someone that would even consider taking it to the extreme he did.

Perhaps I should add some perspective: a portion of my property has been significantly damaged by ATV morons and many peaceful hiking days in my near wilderness abode have been blasted by 90 decibel earth and nerve wracking machines, I hardly need to apologize for my rancor. As for the "few bad apples" you are only partly right, some 70+% of ATVs are used for utilitarian tasks, it is the 30% that seems to contain an inordinate amount of "bad apples"
fastjerry

On the contrary, I think you do need to apologize for your "rancor". There is no need to escalate this to the degree of declaring "open season" on ORV riders. I'm sure there are some who think you significantly damaged the wilderness by building your house where you and many others have. Does that mean they have the right to declare open season on you? The answer would be NO! You have the right to do what you want on property you have purchased.

As for the people damaging your property, they are the ones who give us responsible riders a bad name. However, I hardly think they are the majority of the 30% (your number, I think there are more) of the thousands of us who ride for sport. Have you posted signs? They may not even know they are on your property. Is it legal to ride on the property adjacent to yours? If not, they shouldn't be there, they are trespassing and the authorities should be called. And I apologize to you for those few which we do not have any control over.

Bottom line, there is still no need to take it to the extreme you did.

I have read both Mr Klines first e-mail that started all this ruckus over SB5544 and his answer to one of the responders. My first thoughts on his first e-mail were, here we have an elected Senator who is talking on a subject he has NO knowledge about nor does he have the interest to investigate the subject,the ORV rider.
Had I responded before reading his second e-mail to Erick you would not have printed my response. Now that I read the letter to Erick In some ways I can agree that there are those few ORV riders out there that are rude and inconsiderate to others. However the Majority of ORV riders are very considerate and go out of their way to be kind to both other people and the enviroment. As stated many times the State takes in a considerable sum of money each year on ORV registration while the riders continue to loose more and more areas to ride, this is forcing owners of land to ride in their own backyards thus creating problems for those around them. In this situation I think the State needs to provide more ORV tracks like the one just past Olympia that riders can use so they will not distrube others peace and quit. I have a son that used to race all the time and in the four years he rode I invested over $12,000 just think how big a chunk the State received from tax revenue on that. The Senator needs to put as much energy into ORV riding areas as he does into creating more constrictive laws. As a formor police officer I know the laws are there all we have to do is enforce them.

I am so glad that this bill got the attention that it did. It reminds all of us that a few ignorant politicians can bring us together to let the state know that us ORV sports people are passionate about what we do. I too live in a rural area and commute over an hour to get to work just so that my family has a place to ride. My neighbor made many false accusations to the county about our riding and we were told over and over again to keep riding and not let our neighbors control us. As a rider I have had negative experiences with "hikers" using ORV trails at Tahuya in Belfair. One actually told me to slow down as if he had the right of way. I'm sorry but if one chooses to hike on a designated OHV trail that person should get out of the way. It's not like you didn't hear me coming- I'm so "annoyingly loud" right? Oh, and maybe some motorsports enthusiast should be elected and try to eliminate car horns from being used in the city. We don't want to disrupt any urban city dwellers peace and quiet. Sheesh!

I stand behind my refusal to apologize, I am from a different state dealing with the same issues. We just had a public meeting where the ATV crowd demonstrated its complete boorishness, jeering and catcalls being their basic communication. I suspect their screaming is due to their experience of trying to be heard above the incessant wailing of their machines, or maybe it's a birth defect carried by all motorheads. In any case I find these people are not athletes, they don't make it up to the cerebrally average, they are seldom socially skilled and certainly not among the culturally aware. Most of them that have actually matured past the post secondary education level would do well to take on more physical and mental pursuits. Too many grew up with TV as their babysitter blaring out useless noise and think that the rest of us should accept this cacophony of screaming RPMs as part of our daily lives. I moved away from this idiocy to find peace and solace in a woodland retreat only to find the motorheads chasing me here. Is there no place for silent sport people like me to find peace. Must we always endure the pounding decibels, the shaking ground and the stinking exhaust for a few (BTW my number of 70% utilitarian vs.30% recreational came from the ATV org itself) morons who couldn't care less about who they run over, around or through to feel that vibration between their legs. I'm sorry but recreational ATVing makes about as much sense as recreational logging, recreational combat or recreational demolition. The next thing you know, if this "war" ever ends we'll be looking for places to play with surplus Bradleys and Abrams. I can hardly wait.
fastjerry

Gosh it sounds like another person who has personal problems with ATV's. If the police won't help you try a therapist.

Tried that, but he said he couldn't do anything about them either. Maybe I'll try an exterminator, they claim to be able to eliminate unwanted pests.
fastjerry

Wow - scary Jerry, you must be one unhappy person
(in general, that is). Mowing the lawn must be brain
rattling agony for you. It's apparent that you are doing all within your written ability to demean.

Interesting how someone who appears so expessively inteligent can at the same time be so ignorant and short sighted.

Post your property and inforce it!

Utterly amazing, but perhaps what should be expected: someone comes onto my property (yes it's posted but they either go around or over the signs), blows off smelly exhaust, pumps out head banging racket and leaves 12" wide and deep ruts and I am the one who should be apologetic? And I am further to be expected to support even wider recreational use of a souped up utility vehicle? Don't misunderstand, I think there is nothing wrong with owning and using ATVs, just like I have no problem with people owning and using D9 Cats. Both might be fun to drive, but both are prone to damaging the environment around them, and both should be restricted. Neither should be permitted on hiking trails, highways, neighborhoods, wildlife areas, campgrounds, city streets or any place other than construction projects and private property - and on private property they should be required to meet noise restrictions. I put on ear protection when operating noisy equipment, but I shouldn't have too to take a walk down a wilderness trail. People DO make noise in doing work but recreational pollution (air, ear or ground) doesn't really make any sense.
Fastjerry

I didn't realize that ATVs were allowed on the highway or city streets or even hiking trails. I did know that hikers were allowed on ATV trails though. And as for private property trespassing is never good. As far as noise goes, there are regulations in every community. In mine you can't make noise after 6pm. So I have the freedom to do as I please on my property until then. We all do, including you. Is't that great!

actually its sound like we need to call the exterminator on you, seriously read what you are writing because you sound totally stupid

Its obvious that both sides can be argued until we are all blue in the face. And both sides have valid points to consider. But what is most offensive is the the generalization of a large group. Example: Just becuase your nieghbor is a raging out of control rude obnoxious drunk does not mean the entire population who my enjoy a drink now and then are in the same catagory.

If your situation is really what you say it is, then I sypmothize whole heartedly. In addition I cannot imagine your frustration. But in my case I am a professional person with a strong family unit who also happens to enjoy ridding motorcycles. I have accomodated, muffled noise, created natural sound barriers and re-arranged our ridding direction and times to please one neighbor who is over 450'away in a densly wooded area. These people have no interest in being neihborly despite our efforts of kindness and expense. Our neighbors
who are non-ATV users whose homes are closer in proximity give full support and have even offered to come to our defense if needed. So my frustration is equal to yours only comming from the other side of the fence. We all have rights and a compromise needs to be met which addresses those rights for both parties.

Prohibition brought about violence and strife.

Precisely the point. No of course they are not allowed on hiking trails but give them one of their own and they take five that aren't and create a dozen more that didn't exist. NO noise after 6:00, wow, that's got to be hard, but before that what, a 120dB is OK? Oh, and any hiker out on an ATV trail must be deaf, dumb, and blind - or an ATVer that ran out of gas!
Fastjerry

To those who are trying to ban o.r.v riding : SB5544

Looks like there is a room where our high priced politicians have a room to sit in and make things up to complain about because I know that the state of Washington has all of its important issues taken care of. Now I wonder how many issues are even half way taken care of that they promised us they would that got them voted into office in the first place. Hmmm sounds like D.C to me
So here is our stand at Core racing on this issue. This is how it starts first it is a noise issue then that wont be good enough. Then it will be a smell issue with gas or oil then that wont be good enough. Then it will be the colors hit the sun and blind them, do you see where I am going with this, pretty shortly it will be banned just like smoking. Now I know this SPORT doesn’t mean much to these people but to most of us it is a way of life My son rides in the northwest quad circuit and he has a gift for riding like most kids on the circuit and like most parents I’m sure, would like to see them make a future for themselves on a professional level. We have spent a lot of time and money on this SPORT and for some have made a business out of it and would not like to see any of these people fall into bankruptcy, I’m not to sure you have thought about that. Most of the reasons that I have read about this matter is ridicules.
1: Moving for peace and quiet, some of my friends and I had to purchase houses with land so we could ride because we have been kicked out of everywhere that was once rideable but now isn’t. So in order to ride I went 260,000 dollars in debt.
2: Irresponsible users. Well I am sorry for the few bad apples that are out there . So lets talk about irresponsibility. When is the cut off point to give certain people there license. You don’t know how many times I have almost been in an accident because some person decides to go 40 on the highway while I am trying to merge into traffic ,or running red lights, or going 15 in a 30 or not being able to see around them ,I could go on and on.
3: Property values, you show me where atv brings property values down and I will show you where there is a junk yard on or in that home or neighborhood High crime area, an appraiser making the value to come in where he wants for the bank or agent, or a bank approving some one for financing that can’t afford it so it gets runned down and repoed. Trust me atvs have nothing to do with that.
I could keep going for days comparing reasons bottom line is quit spending so much time trying to take things away from mostly our kids and worry about the real issues. We are trying to make a future for our kids because we know we cant count on our government to.(Most of it wont be there when I need to use it) .
One issue that bothered me is the fact that you don not need to be in shape to do this SPORT. Well I will tell you this, for those who think that I challenge you to race, climb a hill, drag race or even trail ride and do this for 1 hour straight, then tell me how much muscle and stamina you have to have for this so called SPORT.
So I urge all of you not to support this outrageous bill. Thank you from all of us at core racing.

ORV - ers respect the laws and respect their fellow neighbors. I dont ride, nor have the inclination to do so. My neighbors do. they ride out on the street, and have worked up a little track for themselves in the field next door. They never start to early and they are always done by 8pm as respect for our neighborhood. Its called working as a neighborhood unit. We are a good size developement and this works well. Like with any good relationship, communication is key! My family and I are avid campers. Amongst all our journies, we have never run into ORVs where they shouldnt be. In fact, one time in distress, it was a pack of snowmobilers who came to our rescue. What nice people they were. They ranged in age from 16 to 45.....Yes, the snowmobiles are loud, but we were in THEIR park. Just beacuse YOUR fun isnt the same as there fun, doesnt make their fun wrong...they need their space too, honestly, they need more parks designated for them. What I feel DOES need to be addressed are the new gas powered scooters that teens are riding on the STREETS!!! How is this legal??? these truly are very obnoxious and loud...and the drivers are not even licensed to drive a car on the road, why is it ok for them to ride a motorized scooter that goes 50 on the public street with regular traffic? Priorities ???
WELL - I just read the the WTO protesters are being rewarded 1 million......They DIDNT follow the rules, they got in trouble after being warned numerous times.....now theyre being rewarded! SICKNING!!!!! These must be the same poeple who are complaining about the ORVS....I got it now! thanks for the lesson!

This has to be one of the most ignorant issues in public policy to date. Senator Kline's arguments for banning ORVs are not only unfounded, but also completely asinine. How anyone could classify riding ORVs as unathletic and not physically demanding (which apparently are Kline's qualifications to be a "sport" - which reminds me: then what is billiards considered? Competitive chess? Golf? Are those not sports either? ORV riding can certainly be more physically demanding than any of those.) is simply an extremely biased statement by an uneducated individual. Additionally, Kline states that personal watercraft should be banned as well, on the grounds that they are simply amuzement for "spoiled drunk teenagers." I happen to enjoy riding personal watercraft, and I am neither spoiled nor a teenager, and am certainly not drunk when I ride them.

Maybe the politicians behind this measure should re-evaluate the motives behind it and get over their gross generalizations and extremely narrow veiws. They need to realize that they are on one side of a two-sided debate, with rights-enabled, determined citizens as their opposition who would be willing to engage in a mature interaction. If reasons and arguments are going to be presented to support the ban of ORVs, then at least make them coherent and supported with definitive statistics instead of emotionally charged, ignorant outbursts.

We live in a society that upholds and cherishes our freedoms and those of our fellow citizens. Possibly a compromise can be reached between the two opposing sides of this debate because each side has valid reasons, but certainly not with Senator Adam Kline leading the discussion. Mr. Kline, your desire to have your email circulated has been granted, and for that I am thankful. I have witnessed your ineptitude as a public figure, and you will never get a vote from me at any time in my lifetime.

Wow! Who are these people? Everybody get off your high horse. Nothing in the Constitution says you have the liberty to trample on other people's rights. It is about respect. Frankly, motorcross and ORV's raced as a sport offend neighbors, waste resources and destroy the environment. If you weren't so angry all the time, maybe you could relax by reading a book or having a picnic at a cool (quiet) mountain lake.

Wow! Such vituperous invective. I'd say you were hoist by your own petard. ATVing a "sport"? Try walking sometime, it at least has proven health benefits. When you say about Senator Kline "...witnessed your ineptitude as a public figure" do you mean he had the audacity to suggest something with which you disagreed? And that that is a definition of public ineptitude? If this is the most important and defining issue in your life I pity your miserable existence, I also doubt that you would have ever voted for Kline in the first place, that is if you even vote.
Fastjerry

For all the degrading references you make to the ATV community in general, one would think you have said
quite enough. Your comments steer more and more toward inciting an argument which will accomplish nothing other than to satisfy your own ego.

Good luck in your efforts to improve your already stellar image of an uncompromising, unhappy, self-less, little man or woman?

Inciting an argument? My dear, that's all this has been since the ATV became a "recreational" vehicle. Furthermore, why is it you find my posts less noble than the myriad of sanctimonious slather and acrimonious arguments from the ATV community. We who resist and resent the invasion of these four wheel crutches have the same freedom to bellow in defense of our rights as you. The biggest difference is that in the pursuit of my passion I tread not on the space or peace of others, were it so of the ATV we would not have this argument. You have misplaced your accusations: those who read my words and wish I would go away seem least happy and least compromising of all. ;->
Fastjerry

Correction:

I do not find your comments any less noble. ATV's from there conception where designed for recreation and yes sport. And in later years found themselves to be a usefull tool in a variety of professions that are not recreational. Although I can guarantee those using them for work are having fun.

My point for you sir is: You've deemed the ATV community as usless. Compromise is no where to be found in any of your comments. So your sanctimonious slather and acrimonious dribble toward the ATV community does nothing BUT evoke arumentative comments....that appears to be your quest, for which you must get great pleasure.

I'm sure you will continue with your little game but that is not the kind of fun I enjoy.

Thank you for proving my point in your own words, that indeed you are arguing. You sound very much like my own neighbor. If he had approaced me in a kind manner seeking a neigborly resolution I would have welcomed his thoughts. I have already acted on many options of my own accord, yet his attitude is cease and desist or else. I'm not that kind of person, but people like you have a real knack in bringing out the worst in kind law abiding families who normally have conflict with no one. Conversation with you is pointless as you will forever agree to disagree.

My dear, ATVers are not a bunch of redneck hillbilly's. Many if not most are educated well paid professionals who contribute more to society than most. The big picture of our sport is much, much larger than your realize. From snowmobiles to motorcycles all have well funded factory backed race programs that operate world wide. Bringing together an international group of competitors and
spectators producing millions of dollars. We did these competitors and spectators develope their skills? From their backyards, local trails and race tracks. We are not going away, and the vast majority would be more than happy to accomodate our neighbors. Some people are control freaks and insist on having things only their way, I think you are one of them. Why not forge some new ground and see if you can strike a freindly compromise with your neighbor. If that is not possible, then by all means pursue all the legal avenues possible.

Good luck to all who pursue their rights

Simply dismissing my comments is simply a different form of argumentation, it is a way of ignoring points without actually addressing them. "Kill the messenger" and declare yourself morally superior. If you read from the beginning of this thread it is clear that by the time I joined in the rhetoric was already decidedly mean and one sided, I merely offered balance. Compromise? I see no evidence of true compromise offered anywhere from the motorminded side of the issue, we are merely told how important ATVs are, how economically strong ATVs are, how the rest of us should get used to the noise because noise exists and ATVs are not going away. When offering a rule to play by, Sen. Kline's bill, he and we are demagogued, ridiculed, and slandered. It is true the Senator's e-mail had an inflammatory style and may be fairly blamed for the tone it set, it was an ill advised attempt to respond, certainly born of frustration. The bill itself, though, has raised an uproar that would likely violate the 45dB level the bill has at it's heart.
You raise again the economic value of your activity as though it has a place in this discussion, as though the economics justify the aural invasion. I can retort that birding, hiking, biking, canoeing, and skiing all have high economic import, all of them larger than the ATV industry and none of which intrude on one's hearing threshold, but that misses the point: ATVs have a significant and frequently unwelcome noise impact that goes far beyond the boundaries of your activity. I am not anti ATV, but I am anti unwelcome noise. Do you suggest that there is no way to enjoy your activity without the noise? (I'll leave the footprint damage issue for a different discussion). You are persistent in your quest for compromise though, I'll see that and raise you one: offer a compromise and see how I react. I am not uncompromising, a hard sell maybe, but willing to seek middle ground. So where is the middle ground as you see it? Offer it without the denigration and I'll respond with an equally civil tone.
Fastjerry

Fastjerry,

I have a hard time believing that you would be one to compromise based on your past comments "The ATV supporters are simply TSTL. Personally I think we should have an open season on them...IF YOU CAN'T ENJOY THE OUTDOORS WITHOUT A MOTOR, STAY HOME." and "Maybe I'll try an exterminator, they claim to be able to eliminate unwanted pests."

Those comments sure sound like you are open to compromise. Do you really wonder why people on this blog took the tone they did with Sen. Kline? It's due to the fact that every time people like you and the Senator complain about ORV's, there is no compromising tone to your comments. As someone stated earlier, you should go back and read your past posts. Maybe then, you can explain to us how we can interpret your comments as compromising.

By the way,

There have been many compromising points made by past posts. It has been stated over and over how people have come to agreements with their neighbors to ride between certain times, limit the amount of time they ride per day, ride certain days during the week. We have also asked for a few more places to ride. We have one ORV park for three highly populated counties. That simply is not enough to support the number or people who ride. But all we hear from the anti-ORV folks are "NO, Never, Not in my backyard". I ask you then, where can we go? Where is the compromise from you?

I would have no problem replacing my stock exhaust with a quieter system if one was available that would not reduce the performance of my bikes and quads to the equivalent of a moped. But currently the technology is not there. And I'm not sure people like you would be happy even then. There is already a law on the books to address ORV noise that was past years back, and now it's not good enough. Even if this bill would have made it to law, I doubt it would have been good enough based on your past comments. Could you tell us what your compromise would be if you are truly willing to compromise?

I repeat: So where is the middle ground as you see it? Offer it without the denigration and I'll respond with an equally civil tone.
Fastjerry

Compromise:

First I would like to point out, once again that 45db is not compromise. Its the elimiation of sound altogether, wether is planes, trains, birds - it's not an achievable.

In my case I have done everything within my power to reduce noise for one neighbor. Our family rides only on our private property or public race facilities. Ridding on our property is not an every day thing. I keep a log with dates times and duration of our ridding. On average we ride maybe 3 times per month for a total of 3-hours for the entire month as weather permits. While there are times we won't ride for 2-3 months at a time.

Compromise for my situation:

Establish ridding times that are limited in duration and scheduled so our neighbor can be prepared for activity without any surprises. If the weather happens to be bad that day, then we loose that day. If our neighbor has a special request on that day we loose that day as well. As you can see I am more than willing to compromise.

Suggestion as a whole for this situation?

Education on the facts and real life issues from both sides of the fence. What real sound is and how that can be applied or monitered effectively. Establish limits that are real world and actually achievable. Penalize only those who don't comply. Establish a code of conduct and rules that can effectively be enforced by local municipalities.
There is now cure all for the unruely in any organzation. Passing laws that are unacheivable and arbitrary is not the way to go for any situation.

Actually your approach seems quite reasonable, quite a change from what I have been used to. While 45 dB is not quite the elimination of sound, it falls between a whisper and normal conversation, it is pretty restrictive depending on how far from the source the measurement is taken: 45 dB at the source of an ATV is not achievable, but at 1000 ft I would expect no more than that as it would require greater than 100 dB from the tailpipe. If it is still 45 dB at a half or 1 mile you must be running with a AA fuel dragster engine. In any case the bill called for 45dB at the property line or in the house, possible but hardly practical, and the bill also targeted ATVs which I think discriminatory. A lot of cities have noise ordinances, most of them are reasonable and generally only enforced by complaint. My compromise would be to consider a general noise ordinance with a 65dB daytime restriction and 55dB at night, with exceptions to exceed the limit by permit or notification and agreement by affected residents. These limits would be measured at the property line, not the source. If you know the dB rating of your machine, competition units range from 96 to 110 dB, you can determine how far away you need to be to be within the limit. Because I live in the country there are no such limits so I am sometimes ravaged by the beasts, but if the only problem were the noise I might be more accommodating, as I said in my previous post I will leave those discussions for a separate thread.
Fastjerry

Fastjerry,

Your last post sounds much more compromising than your first. Why didn't you take that stance from the beginning instead of wanting to banish us from the outdoors for good? It's nice to see that you are actually willing to compromise.

Pat,
My early posts were not intended to be compromising, the debate at that point was harsh and I thought one sided so I just joined the fray. I also observed rule one when getting into a shouting match debate: shout louder and get the attention of the audience; I think I succeeded in that. Rule two is to have something reasonable to say when you have their attention; I have been slow getting there.
The bill is dead, however, but the issue is not. When the hotheads on both sides of the issue have cooled one may find that there is room for reason, even Sen. Kline would agree.
Me, I still have to engage in the ATV issues back here in my northwoods retreat, it's not just the noise...
Fastjerry

Fastjerry,

Not a bad idea: daytime limit and night time limit.

A little history:

Every single one of our machines are fit with the quietest after markets pipes available, 93db at the tail pipe while riding at home, $500.00 a piece. When competing in area's where noise is less restrictive we apply our race pipes, which are louder and produce more horsepower. While at home though we kindly us our quiet pipes, sacraficing power but doing our best to be good neghbors. All neighbors accept one are very pleased with out instant willingness to make things quiet as possible. Unfortunately now, we hardly ever use or property for this purpose. We live on 5acres with the complaining neighbor house resides approximately 450'away from our closest track point. Our homes are approximately 800-900' away yet our neighbor is hot on the phone (calling the sheriff) the moment a motorcycle even starts in or near our garage. He attempted to file a anti-harrassment order against my family in court. Thankfully the judge threw it out, acknowledging it was obvious we were not trying to harm anyone. In fact she commended us for occupying our son in a healthy family oriented way. Yet this neighbor persists in what I now feel is harrassment toward us considering we ride so very little. I have been compassionate, kind, and invested heavily in a variety of ways to please them. This guy will go so far out of his way to trek 400' through densly wooded and burshed property to get as close as he possibly can to the property line and take pictures of my son while ridding. You think sound is un-nerving! Haveing a man in his 60's dressed in camo gear hidding in the bushes clicking off pictures of your 14-year old son who would like to get 1/2 hour of ridding since he has successfully completed all his homework............that drives me nuts.

Anyway that's our problem, and as a family we have decided not to live near anyone who seems that unstable, we are moving.

Your suggestions are very reasonable and I think you will find that a good majority of ATVers are family people who do not want to offend or harm anyone. Hopefully now, with my breif description of or problems you can understand maybe even sympothize just a little, why this is such a hot topic for people like ourselves where this activity is a life style not a flashing pointless past time.

And yes I do sympothize with you regarding what appear to be very rude and disrespectfull ATVers trespassing on your property.

Hey Whateverjerry- My family had a very similar situation. We purchased our home next to a wooded property specifically so that we wouldn't anoy anyone with or motorcycles. The property was supposed to be unbuildable because of wetlands but sure enough someone did so anyway(and then payed multiple fines for it). The first occupant were fine with our riding as we hardly ever rode. Like you, maybe a total of 2 or 3 hours a month max. The second occupants were totally unreasonabe demanding that we stop altogether. They made numerous false accusations to the county and in turn, I turned them in for having too many animals on there property. They ended up losing there animals and having to replant alot of property they had cleared. We of course had not done anything wrong and were told to keep riding by the county officals. Long story short. They harrassed us constantly by taking pictures of us while we were in our yard. bought roosters and taught them to make noise at 4am, yes the lady would start them going!, and call us terrible names and shine lights in our windows of the house at night. CRAZY but we didn't let it stop us and eventually they moved. Now we have great neighbors once again. I was one step short of filing a harrassment charge because I had it all documented. I know it is hard to ignore seriously mentally unstable people but they should move, not you.

Hey Shane-

Thanks for the support. But these people are not going to move. We have lived there for 10-years with no problems in fact we rode more in the past than we do know. Within the past year and a half this particular neighbor starting calling the sheriff. He did'nt have the courage or respect to call me directly. So I had to track his number down myself and place a call. Come to find out from the neighbors we do get along with, they've all had issue with this guy - he is a control freak who has lived on his 25acres for years. He has come in contact with the CORVN organization (Coallition Against ORV Nuisances) which has apparently impowered him to pursue this issue with earnest. In fact they (my neighbors) testified before the Senate and were instrumental in creating the SB5544 bill that started all of this uproar. Now that he has access to a variety of resources including legal, through this organization, it would be all out war. And I really believe if we continue to ride regardless of his efforts, we will be sued. And becuase of his new affiliations our ridding could potentially cause more harm to the ridding community in general. We have been spoiled for 10-years having our own practice track so I guess we've had a good run. It is very disappointing especially for our son who has local sponsorship. But the un-nerving feeling of someone spying on us
taking pictures and documenting our every move....well it makes me sick to my stomach. It's even more painfull to come home every day and look
at this awesome track that we cannot ride on. I build all of our tracks myself and our current configuration is A+ quality. It will be missed, but we have plenty of other options and we are moving to another 5acre peice.....maybe we will get lucky with some nice neighbors.

Thanks again

Wow. Kline sure has a stick up his rump.

His comments go to show how un-inclusive whiners always seem to trend to the top of the political food chain, by rally support on divisive self-gratifying personal issues.

Best guess is that like Ron Sims, this likely extends to everything in his life. My experience is that the higher their nose pokes; the less tolerance they have as their elitism knows few bounds- having long eclipsed their rationale logic after a lot of early parental re-assurance from similar like-minded morons.

I mean what do you say to that? Not a sport? Is that what these guys tell themselves during session? Is it because they could make the cut to be class president in 2nd grade, but somehow can't manage to drive their SUV at 90mph down I5 without causing a 5 car pile up? I bet he'd be the one to run 2:15 lap times at Portland in novice then go home on a flat bed after a day of pissing everyone else off around him.

Hopefully one day he can look back on this thread and fully appreciate how bad of an ignorant jack ass he sounds like.

... but I doubt it. So, point taken, but I can summarize the thread as half of us already realize how sniffing neighbor's butts is a WA state past time, and I think we've found them hippies a leader.

Back to bouncing off 9K for me. Happy motoring.

Wow, passionate is one thing. Kline & some of the people in these stories are just plain obsessive.

I moved to the Spokane area after living in the Seattle area for 23 years. We waterskied summer & winter while we were there. And since the water gets a lot harder here in the winter, we found something else to play with, ATVs. There is riding throughout Idaho, two different timber company lands, all over Pend O'Reille county and 2 ORV parks in Spokane county, one 2 minutes from my house. We have good mufflers on our ATVs & ride respectfully during daylight hours only. Yet we have run up against one of the psychos you all describe.

We're riding at the Liberty Lake ORV area. There is a dirt road that winds up the mountain & has signs that say something about the ORV area going for one mile up the road. Then up the road there is another sign that indicates the ORV area boundry. So we're riding along the road enjoying the view & a Cadillac comes barreling down the road at 30 or 40 mph (this is a narrow, dirt road with a cliff on one side). So I speed up a bit to get down to the parking area & out of this guy's way. We get to the parking area & the guy is HOT. He jumps out of his car, and runs over to me & is taking pictures of me & my ATV rattling on about how we don't belong there & how we're distrupting the beauty of the area...... menawhile the dust hasn't even settled yet from him speeding down this dirt road & slamming on the brakes.

Long story short, we talked to the ranger & this guy has done this before. The authorities have talked to him & he continues on his rampage, calling the local news & giving them false information. Recently I found out that the guy is not even the property owner, but a renter. And the rangers we talked with said they have contacted the owner of the land if he'd like to sell (which is about 100' wide & between the ORV park & Idaho state land which is rideable with an Idaho permit). Would be good for everyone if this guy went away.

So the moral is these battles are everywhere. Join a local riding club & use the power of the group to let you voice be heard. Especially to these holier than thou politicians who can't seem to share the Earth with the rest of us.

Here we are mid-May again, the weather getting nicer and he-ar comes the dirt bikes and quads! I'm writing this as a dust cloud settles over my backyard. Yeh, it's a problem in rural areas where folks move to for a little quiet or at least expect a little. Neighboring land owners who have their mini-moto tracks should get a cease and desist order, and it should be made easy for the victims to get one through the legal channels. Keep the ORV's on public lands and away from rural home sites!!!

The motocross at Washougal, Wash. routinely far exceeds Washington State noise standards, and gets away with it.
The Washougal motocross used to be a small operation, which neighbors tolerated. But it changed hands a couple of times, and each time, grew - constant, deafening noise from eight in the morning until after dark, nearly every weekend, many week days, even Easter Morning at 8 a.m.
There are many legal issues involved, but Clark County has been reluctant to enforce the rules; the county issed a permit for the motocross, but the track owners didn't like some of the requirements for noise levels and noise testing, so they said they're going to ignore those rules.
Neighbors pressed it through the courts, until they ran out of money. But the Washougal MX has money, power, and clout.

The motocross at Washougal, Wash. routinely far exceeds Washington State noise standards, and gets away with it.
The Washougal motocross used to be a small operation, which neighbors tolerated. But it changed hands a couple of times, and each time, grew - constant, deafening noise from eight in the morning until after dark, nearly every weekend, many week days, even Easter Morning at 8 a.m.
There are many legal issues involved, but Clark County has been reluctant to enforce the rules; the county issed a permit for the motocross, but the track owners didn't like some of the requirements for noise levels and noise testing, so they said they're going to ignore those rules.
Neighbors pressed it through the courts, until they ran out of money. But the Washougal MX has money, power, and clout.

Mr. Klein is an idiot for saying riding is not a sport, after a race most riders lose pounds, and are in excellent physical shape. And if people are complaining about the ORV park being too noisy, then why the hell did they move, there.

My Dad and I go riding whenever we can and we have a blast together. I live in Shoreline and I ride my dirt bike in the yard for maybe 15 minutes every 2 or 3 weeks just to keep it going. My neighbors asked my parents why they let me ride in the yard, not because of moise but, because of our grass and they, " well he gets good grade, doesn't do drugs and is a nice kid, we can deal with the grass when he goes to college."

Mr. Kline needs to go! I'm sure he always wears his bicycle helmet, only crosses on the green light and never drinks from a garden hose. Man! How did any of us over 40 ever survive? Thank god for the vote. I sent a letter to Mr Kline that explained who the people are that are involved in motocross and off road. Families and just some of the best people on the planet. I feel for any of you who have Mr Helper as your senator. Get rid of him. Sorry, this guy really annoys me.

The noise from teens on quads,and dirt bikes disrupt our neighborhood almost daily.The riders have no respect for others what so ever.We have a right to not listen to this,crazy noise generated by unsupervised teens and adults who are just as bad.They also drive at unsafe speeds.Thank God,for Adam Kline.

We live less then 50 feet from the road and we have a kid riding all day long on this little 4-wheeler on our non-designated 4-wheeler road. He stands up on it and flaps his arms like he's flying.He has no muffler, he is speeding and he does circles on the road all the time.I have even seen him intimidating a Amish man driving his horse and buggy past our house and the Amish never bother anyone.The neighbors have seen him follow cars in a intimidating way and chase them also full speed.The neighbors live 1/4 of a mile from us and you can hear this non-muffler 4-wheeler as he is dragging and digging up the road.The kid is 12 years old, I don't believe this 4-wheeler is registered and he has played chicken with a lady who has had a baby in the car and almost put her in a ditch twice. He deliberately is riding doing intimidation acts past neighbors who he knows is getting tired of his all day loud riding.The parents don't care in-fact they encourage him to be even more louder and nasty with whom ever does not like it..and they them selves have threatened homes and animals if you complain about their kid.All of the neighbors feel like we are in a war and want our peace back,we do not want to live under threats and harassment of both the family and their son.The law in all states must be changed and made so people can feel safe and non-threatened or harassed by non legal riders of 4-wheelers on non-legal roads.If others who do listen and go with the laws can read this..don't let people who don't care take your fun riding away from you...because people who go against the laws will ruin everything for you in the future.Stand up for your right to ride and stop those who are threatening all that is fun with 4-wheeling.

I am someone that can appreciate both sides. I have a personal track at my home because my 12 & 7 year old race. For those of you that are upset with opposers don't be. I have 9 neighbors that are less than 300' from my track and neighbors are upset! I find my children are more important. The facts are extreme sports are the fastest growing sports in the United States. Motocross is rated the #1 physically and Mentally demanded sport of all time. 89,000 OHVs were sold to ages 30-50 in 2004. 72,000 Ohvs were sold to people 51 & up. The older generation have been the fastest growing purchasers of OHVs in the last several years. I found through experience that you can change mufflers, sell your 2 stroke and buy a quiter 4 stroke, stop riding way before noise ordinance. The fact is some people love to be meserible and want you there with them. Love you family first. Your children are your heritage and most important thing you have. We know that these sports have proven to build kids up. provide family values, decress the use of drugs and violence etc. Also, for those of you concerned about the noise law. VA noise ordinance is 12 midnight to 6 AM. The noise produced can't exceed 65 decibels during this time. Va law also states OHVs have no muffler requirement and there is no maximum sound level for OHVs. You OHV lovers out there reaserch your laws hard. For the crying neighbors: be very careful about the noise levels that you are trying to promote. Everyone including state and local government agree noise is noise. This being said, You better check you mowers, weedeaters, pressure washers, and your personal cars. I have been doing studies on this issue for over a year trying my best to create a solution. Normal speaking voice is 62dbs. the ice in your ice maker creates more than that when the ice falls. Your dishwasher is over 70dbs, you lawn mower and outdoor equipment are all over 80. Tell you what: you stop mowing, weed eating, I beleive you neighbor would stop riding OHVS. Just a few facts for you, Obesity,Suicide,Depression,Violence,Crime,Teenage pregnancy,divorice,child abuse are all at an all time high and continue to get worse. Everyone of these numbers within the community of extreme sports don't make a blip on the screen. You tell me neighbors what is better. Better People, Less noise.
Think about it. By the way to all of you OHV fans and racers. because of all these facts mentioned we should have an extreme sports park open next spring in Fishersville, Va at Expoland.

Ask and you shall receive Mr. Kline. Your ignorant rant has found it's way all the way across the country to us in Virginia. If you think motorcycle racing is not a sport, I challenge you to follow me for a couple of miles on a hare scramble track at anything more than a snails pace. Professional motocross racers are in a league of their own when it comes to physical fitness. Do a little more research next time before opening up your pie hole.
Don't judge our whole group by the actions of a few ignorant rednecks who recklessly fly up and down the roads and fields of public neighborhoods. If I were to rush to judgement like that then what could I assume about politicians, or you in particular Mr. Kline?

i love this sport