From the viaduct to the WASL and every issue in between, why is it so hard to make a decision?
There has to be something wrong. Here we are, six years after the earthquake damaged the Alaskan Way Viaduct, and we're still arguing over how to replace it. And now, we're rushing to study new options too. Why did it take so long to get to this point? Sure, we kid about the "Seattle way," but what's the problem? Or, should we just accept that it takes this long? Are we kidding ourselves to think that other states or cities decide things more quickly?
Let's hear some theories. I'd be especially curious to hear from people who have lived elsewhere and what your experience was. Are we more afraid to make decisions? Do we rely too much on voters?
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17 Comments
Ed Tieman said:
Since they cannot decide on what to do about Alaska Way. Why not just forget about it until it just falls down. Look at all the money they will save. Now if they save that money they just might have enough saved to pay cash to replace it.
Craig said:
Why can't we make a decision?????
When you look at the governor's non-responses to the questions about the viaduct-------she can't even tell people WHAT SHE THINKS, because she'll upset this group or that group.
If the governor can't candidly speak her mind about a public highway project, then how on earth can she make a decision about it?
thepaginator said:
the problem isn't that we can't decide. i was born here. my parents were born here. most of my friends were born here and we have long since made up our minds. what we have identified as the 'problem' is that the people who have moved here want to implement here what they had in their former homes- which they didn't like and left from.
Thanks!
Gerry Gilbert said:
We have always been an area that cherishes a conscensus, but I also blame the voters for a lot of this indecision. Over the last 10 years or so the elected representatives have become gun shy because if they make a decision it is just overturned by initiative. So not we just let the voters decide over and over and over again.
Finally our elected officals need to find some backbone and make some tough calls and go in front of the people and explain it in clear, concise fashion.
Arlene said:
Big business prefers outrageously expensive projects like tunnels and SeaTac 3rd runway. Getting construction boondoggles approved takes time since some people do the math and recognize we can’t afford to build them especially since they are unlikely to withstand the big earthquake that’s due.
christa said:
I just have a quick word to add about the WASL. First off do the people who make studpid tests like that realize that at least half of sophomore students are only in level 2 math? I myself was in level 3 math (which is a year ahead of where sophomores typically are) and I passed the WASL. Those of my friends who were in a lower level of math failed the math portion so if you really want us all to pass make a test that is suitable to the level most of the students are at.
Thank you for letting me vent.
Christa Knutson
High school Junior
Jack said:
Remember the quote about those that fail to learn from history are doomed to relive it...
Well Hizzoner Mayor Nickels was less than adaquate in 20 years on the city council, and what do we do? Elect him as mayor... twice. Aren't we paying enough taxes?.... The elevated roadway has been a landmark in the city for many years, giving newcomers a unique view of the city that no other city offers. It is time that Mr. Nickels DO SOMETHING FOR THE CITY. Relax and do nothing so we can find a replacement in 2 years and get on with replacing the Viaduct with an elevated roadway.
marie b said:
WA can't make a decision because the people who live here never studied logic in college. nor, apparently, did they ever learn you reap what you sow. if you all would just understand getting it all YOUR way ALL the time is not the way the rest of the country conducts itself (unless you live in d.c.) the sooner you will understand it doesn't matter what something costs...if something is needed, just build the dang thing and stop pussy footing around. just don't make the rest of the state pay for something that is essentialy a seattle problem.
as for the wasl...don't get me started...my daughter passed that dumb thing the first time she took it...7th grade i believe. she was one of only 35 kids in the whole dang school who did. and...surprise surprise...the majority of the kids who did pass transferred in from out of state...my duaghter complained for weeks she was learning nothing in class except how to take a test. when i was shown an example of how the grading worked for wasl i was appalled. anyone taking the test is given points for doing part of a problem correctly??? what the hell...when i was in school, if you gave a wrong answer, the answer was just wrong. i didn't get points for spelling my name correctly. the wasl, in my opinion, teaches kids that if the process is correct it doesn't matter if the end result is wrong. God help us when they start working at boeing...or rockwell...or any industry building components that directly affect our safety. WA would do well to study other states whose children rank in the 90th percentile or better of the nation when it comes to education...like the state we came from...iowa.
i apologize for using so much space.
Matthew Smith said:
I live in Gig Harbor, and have somewhat followed the viaduct replacement. My interests are more with the new 2nd Tacoma Narrows Bridge.
Here's my thought process about the current Seattle viaduct. As an insurance adjuster and appraiser for a nationwide company, my brother-in-law was given the task in the San Francisco Bay area of climbing through the rubble of their earth quake collapsed viaduct (built by the same contractor ss Seattle I think)and determining what cars were salvageable, and those that were not. Many that were not still had bodies in them of people killed in the collapse. That was enough to keep me off the Seattle viaduct for these last six years.
The viaduct six years ago was old, just like the one in California. It should have been immediately imploded, and rebuilt then. Somehow we could not get along without it, though if it fell down tomorrow taking more lives with it, we'd sure enough figure a way around it until it is rebuilt.
Man kind is basically cheap - when it comes to spending money. We don't cut down trees untl they fall on our neighbors home. We don't repair levies until they break down and flood entire cities. We don't protect buildings already attacked by terrorists. And they get attacked again. Money is at the core of why this viaduct has taken six years to replace. I fear disaster will be the ultimate determining reason to replace it.
This money problem is not just in Seattle, or Washington State. It's in every state, and is at the core of why things don't get done. A problem that is native to Washington is its history with its bridges. We don't have a very good track record. We have a horrible record. We have had the I-90 bridge floats fill up with rain water sinking the bridge, then rebuilt. The West Seattle Bridge was struck by a barge and rebuilt. The Hood Canal floating bridge and the original Tacoma Narrows bridge both blew away in wind storms. Both had to be replaced. I think the bridge connecting Vancouver, Washington to Portland, Oregon was struck causing significant damage. Then repaired. And recently, we had a ship delivering the new Tacoma Narrows bridge decks strike the existing bridge. We got lucky. No damage. Disasters caused most of our states bridges to get replaced, not common sence. Common sence costs money, and we always seem to be in short supply of both.
To wrap this up, I'd like to address the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge. This is a more positive side of Washington State being pro-active. I can't believe with all the horrible weather we have had the fuss being made currently about it not being completed on time. Our governor was there just this morning researching why the delays. I say, waive the late fees, and commend the contractor for a job well done under the circumstances. If we could take the states energy and effort over these next six months and redirect it at the viaduct instead of why this bridge is going to be completed late - I think we'll have a proactive solution to the viaduct replacement.
For what it's worth, I prefer a 6 lane tunnel to replace the viaduct - no matter what the cost to the city or state, and its tax payers. The Seattle waterfront deserves that degree of make over. It's the "Worlds Fair" city, and our only "Emerald" city. A viaduct would be like sticking an agate in amongst emeralds. Why do that again? Instead of rubber wheel on pavement, I'd like to hear sea gulls again on the water front of Seattle.
Thomas Strang said:
Unfortunately leadership in the Northwest is done by committee vote - Speaking from experience if you need to stall, put it in committee - Illustration, just look to the Legislature or Congress.
e said:
This vote on the viaduct will not produce any results. Voting has never been that effective in these parts anyways.
ATTN: Honorable Governor Christine Gregoire and Mayor Greg Nickels…..
Hi Everybody,
What a situation the Alaskan Viaduct is becoming. Who is making the decisions here? Do you want us to vote or not? What is the real cost? How long will it take to build a tunnel or fix the viaduct? Here is my solution…….
Why can’t we have a 6-8 lane highway on surface streets? Turn the Alaska Way viaduct into surface streets. Less maintenance, easier to build, generates more revenue and business. With a tunnel and viaduct, you can’t have restaurants, business offices, larger parks, and not to mention parking meters. By replacing the viaduct with a highway, we would be able to stop and enjoy the view of Seattle and if traffic is backed up we can stop at restaurants and coffee shops. I am sure the City of Seattle would not mind installing parking meters. That would definitely generate revenue and maybe our State would have a surplus for schools, transportation cost, revenue for the 520 bridge, crime prevention and etc.
Wow shopping, entertainment, and more fun for Seattle. The Trolley and the Spirit of Washington dinner train could operate along side the highway as well. Good tourism bucks.
I feel a highway would be a lot cheaper and quicker to build. Not to mention if there is another earthquake or other natural disasters, we will not find ourselves in this position again. Highways are a lot cheaper to repair. So the speed limit would be 40 mph. I think Seattle is beautiful and we should slow down to enjoy it.
Chris and Greg, please consider a highway. Put the highway idea on the ballot. Give voters more options.
People already voted multiple times to replace viaduct. New voting will have same result.
Why? Because people who’s we elected immediately forgot about us. They forgot all their promises because it was just rhetoric’s to be elected and be forgotten.
I know exactly when the viaduct will be replaced – WHEN DISSASTER HAPPEN, WHEN PEOPLE DIED.
Then we have quick nice solution, enough money from nowhere, it will be build in just few years instead of 10-15.
For this to happen – there need to be sacrifices first. People need to give up their lives first, their blood first.
Amanda said:
I came from Buffalo, New York two years ago and I think they are still trying to decide what to do with the Peace Bridge going to Canada! These things just take time because the politicians are afraid of making the wrong decision, and people get behind one decision and get stubborn.
In Seattle's case, however, I think the politician (Ahem! Nickels) is the one getting stubborn and that's what is holding things up!
Mike P said:
dig a tunnel, Pay for it by a TOLL!!!
Regarding the new tunnel or Viaduct, MAKE IT A TOLL. If we in Gig Harbor have to be bent over to travel in our state so should Seattle. Most of Gig Harbor VOTED NO for the new bridge and some how it was pushed on us.
Good for the goose good for the gander!!!! TUNNEL AND MAKE IT A TOLL......
Kristine H Tibbs said:
Christa,
What would you consider a suitable level of math for sophamores? My daughter is in the 3rd grade and is doing stats and algebra! Why should we dumb down the test because kids are too lazy to take the time to work at it and study. High school kids can't even count back change properly (simple addition and subtraction)...scares me to think that they are our future. Back to the issue: Rebuild the Viaduct. If that goes down during rush hour, there are going to be a lot of law suits...how is the state going to pay for that?
There has to be something wrong. Here we are, six years after the earthquake damaged the Alaskan Way Viaduct, and we're still arguing over how to replace it. And now, we're rushing to study new options too. Why did it take so long to get to this point? Sure, we kid about the "Seattle way," but what's the problem? Or, should we just accept that it takes this long? Are we kidding ourselves to think that other states or cities decide things more quickly?
KING 5 News Up Front with Robert Mak
Since they cannot decide on what to do about Alaska Way. Why not just forget about it until it just falls down. Look at all the money they will save. Now if they save that money they just might have enough saved to pay cash to replace it.
Why can't we make a decision?????
When you look at the governor's non-responses to the questions about the viaduct-------she can't even tell people WHAT SHE THINKS, because she'll upset this group or that group.
If the governor can't candidly speak her mind about a public highway project, then how on earth can she make a decision about it?
the problem isn't that we can't decide. i was born here. my parents were born here. most of my friends were born here and we have long since made up our minds. what we have identified as the 'problem' is that the people who have moved here want to implement here what they had in their former homes- which they didn't like and left from.
Thanks!
We have always been an area that cherishes a conscensus, but I also blame the voters for a lot of this indecision. Over the last 10 years or so the elected representatives have become gun shy because if they make a decision it is just overturned by initiative. So not we just let the voters decide over and over and over again.
Finally our elected officals need to find some backbone and make some tough calls and go in front of the people and explain it in clear, concise fashion.
Big business prefers outrageously expensive projects like tunnels and SeaTac 3rd runway. Getting construction boondoggles approved takes time since some people do the math and recognize we can’t afford to build them especially since they are unlikely to withstand the big earthquake that’s due.
I just have a quick word to add about the WASL. First off do the people who make studpid tests like that realize that at least half of sophomore students are only in level 2 math? I myself was in level 3 math (which is a year ahead of where sophomores typically are) and I passed the WASL. Those of my friends who were in a lower level of math failed the math portion so if you really want us all to pass make a test that is suitable to the level most of the students are at.
Thank you for letting me vent.
Christa Knutson
High school Junior
Remember the quote about those that fail to learn from history are doomed to relive it...
Well Hizzoner Mayor Nickels was less than adaquate in 20 years on the city council, and what do we do? Elect him as mayor... twice. Aren't we paying enough taxes?.... The elevated roadway has been a landmark in the city for many years, giving newcomers a unique view of the city that no other city offers. It is time that Mr. Nickels DO SOMETHING FOR THE CITY. Relax and do nothing so we can find a replacement in 2 years and get on with replacing the Viaduct with an elevated roadway.
WA can't make a decision because the people who live here never studied logic in college. nor, apparently, did they ever learn you reap what you sow. if you all would just understand getting it all YOUR way ALL the time is not the way the rest of the country conducts itself (unless you live in d.c.) the sooner you will understand it doesn't matter what something costs...if something is needed, just build the dang thing and stop pussy footing around. just don't make the rest of the state pay for something that is essentialy a seattle problem.
as for the wasl...don't get me started...my daughter passed that dumb thing the first time she took it...7th grade i believe. she was one of only 35 kids in the whole dang school who did. and...surprise surprise...the majority of the kids who did pass transferred in from out of state...my duaghter complained for weeks she was learning nothing in class except how to take a test. when i was shown an example of how the grading worked for wasl i was appalled. anyone taking the test is given points for doing part of a problem correctly??? what the hell...when i was in school, if you gave a wrong answer, the answer was just wrong. i didn't get points for spelling my name correctly. the wasl, in my opinion, teaches kids that if the process is correct it doesn't matter if the end result is wrong. God help us when they start working at boeing...or rockwell...or any industry building components that directly affect our safety. WA would do well to study other states whose children rank in the 90th percentile or better of the nation when it comes to education...like the state we came from...iowa.
i apologize for using so much space.
I live in Gig Harbor, and have somewhat followed the viaduct replacement. My interests are more with the new 2nd Tacoma Narrows Bridge.
Here's my thought process about the current Seattle viaduct. As an insurance adjuster and appraiser for a nationwide company, my brother-in-law was given the task in the San Francisco Bay area of climbing through the rubble of their earth quake collapsed viaduct (built by the same contractor ss Seattle I think)and determining what cars were salvageable, and those that were not. Many that were not still had bodies in them of people killed in the collapse. That was enough to keep me off the Seattle viaduct for these last six years.
The viaduct six years ago was old, just like the one in California. It should have been immediately imploded, and rebuilt then. Somehow we could not get along without it, though if it fell down tomorrow taking more lives with it, we'd sure enough figure a way around it until it is rebuilt.
Man kind is basically cheap - when it comes to spending money. We don't cut down trees untl they fall on our neighbors home. We don't repair levies until they break down and flood entire cities. We don't protect buildings already attacked by terrorists. And they get attacked again. Money is at the core of why this viaduct has taken six years to replace. I fear disaster will be the ultimate determining reason to replace it.
This money problem is not just in Seattle, or Washington State. It's in every state, and is at the core of why things don't get done. A problem that is native to Washington is its history with its bridges. We don't have a very good track record. We have a horrible record. We have had the I-90 bridge floats fill up with rain water sinking the bridge, then rebuilt. The West Seattle Bridge was struck by a barge and rebuilt. The Hood Canal floating bridge and the original Tacoma Narrows bridge both blew away in wind storms. Both had to be replaced. I think the bridge connecting Vancouver, Washington to Portland, Oregon was struck causing significant damage. Then repaired. And recently, we had a ship delivering the new Tacoma Narrows bridge decks strike the existing bridge. We got lucky. No damage. Disasters caused most of our states bridges to get replaced, not common sence. Common sence costs money, and we always seem to be in short supply of both.
To wrap this up, I'd like to address the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge. This is a more positive side of Washington State being pro-active. I can't believe with all the horrible weather we have had the fuss being made currently about it not being completed on time. Our governor was there just this morning researching why the delays. I say, waive the late fees, and commend the contractor for a job well done under the circumstances. If we could take the states energy and effort over these next six months and redirect it at the viaduct instead of why this bridge is going to be completed late - I think we'll have a proactive solution to the viaduct replacement.
For what it's worth, I prefer a 6 lane tunnel to replace the viaduct - no matter what the cost to the city or state, and its tax payers. The Seattle waterfront deserves that degree of make over. It's the "Worlds Fair" city, and our only "Emerald" city. A viaduct would be like sticking an agate in amongst emeralds. Why do that again? Instead of rubber wheel on pavement, I'd like to hear sea gulls again on the water front of Seattle.
Unfortunately leadership in the Northwest is done by committee vote - Speaking from experience if you need to stall, put it in committee - Illustration, just look to the Legislature or Congress.
This vote on the viaduct will not produce any results. Voting has never been that effective in these parts anyways.
Alaska Way Viaduct Suggestion
ATTN: Honorable Governor Christine Gregoire and Mayor Greg Nickels…..
Hi Everybody,
What a situation the Alaskan Viaduct is becoming. Who is making the decisions here? Do you want us to vote or not? What is the real cost? How long will it take to build a tunnel or fix the viaduct? Here is my solution…….
Why can’t we have a 6-8 lane highway on surface streets? Turn the Alaska Way viaduct into surface streets. Less maintenance, easier to build, generates more revenue and business. With a tunnel and viaduct, you can’t have restaurants, business offices, larger parks, and not to mention parking meters. By replacing the viaduct with a highway, we would be able to stop and enjoy the view of Seattle and if traffic is backed up we can stop at restaurants and coffee shops. I am sure the City of Seattle would not mind installing parking meters. That would definitely generate revenue and maybe our State would have a surplus for schools, transportation cost, revenue for the 520 bridge, crime prevention and etc.
Wow shopping, entertainment, and more fun for Seattle. The Trolley and the Spirit of Washington dinner train could operate along side the highway as well. Good tourism bucks.
I feel a highway would be a lot cheaper and quicker to build. Not to mention if there is another earthquake or other natural disasters, we will not find ourselves in this position again. Highways are a lot cheaper to repair. So the speed limit would be 40 mph. I think Seattle is beautiful and we should slow down to enjoy it.
Chris and Greg, please consider a highway. Put the highway idea on the ballot. Give voters more options.
Thanks for your time.
http://www.isavesmart.com
People already voted multiple times to replace viaduct. New voting will have same result.
Why? Because people who’s we elected immediately forgot about us. They forgot all their promises because it was just rhetoric’s to be elected and be forgotten.
I know exactly when the viaduct will be replaced – WHEN DISSASTER HAPPEN, WHEN PEOPLE DIED.
Then we have quick nice solution, enough money from nowhere, it will be build in just few years instead of 10-15.
For this to happen – there need to be sacrifices first. People need to give up their lives first, their blood first.
I came from Buffalo, New York two years ago and I think they are still trying to decide what to do with the Peace Bridge going to Canada! These things just take time because the politicians are afraid of making the wrong decision, and people get behind one decision and get stubborn.
In Seattle's case, however, I think the politician (Ahem! Nickels) is the one getting stubborn and that's what is holding things up!
dig a tunnel, Pay for it by a TOLL!!!
Regarding the new tunnel or Viaduct, MAKE IT A TOLL. If we in Gig Harbor have to be bent over to travel in our state so should Seattle. Most of Gig Harbor VOTED NO for the new bridge and some how it was pushed on us.
Good for the goose good for the gander!!!! TUNNEL AND MAKE IT A TOLL......
Christa,
What would you consider a suitable level of math for sophamores? My daughter is in the 3rd grade and is doing stats and algebra! Why should we dumb down the test because kids are too lazy to take the time to work at it and study. High school kids can't even count back change properly (simple addition and subtraction)...scares me to think that they are our future. Back to the issue: Rebuild the Viaduct. If that goes down during rush hour, there are going to be a lot of law suits...how is the state going to pay for that?
Peace people
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