i'm sorry you don't understand. it is nothing mysterious as to why we don't accept blood Acts 15:20, 29. i hardly think this is news worthy, but some disgruntled person obviously thought it was. he made an informed decision, and if he does die, he will have a clean conscience. would you rob him of that?

I would just like to have an address in which I can send a card in support of this young mans biblical decision in not having mared his relationship with his creator, Jehovah, and we all need to support that and make his last days happy and remember our creator as Dennis is doing, because he has a hope for a perfect life in a paradise on earth

As a person whose faith is the number one thing in my life, I think Dennis is right. I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, nor do I agree with their theology, but this is his choice. I'm not afraid of death, yet I want to live as long as I can. However, I would NEVER sacrifice my integrity and my dignity simply to prolong my life in this world. If I did that I would be sacrificing far more then my life! However, I know our society is very afraid of death, because it has no faith. I think it's wonderful when some one stands up for what's important, and what they believe, in an age when so few live with such conviction.

Dennis is a very wise young man whom we have grown to love very much over the years. If I truly believed this decision was his own and not coerced, I would feel much more comfortable supporting him. As it stands, however, we will never truly know HOW Dennis feels. Dennis' environment has been "patrolled" constantly since he was hospitalized and no one has been allowed to speak to him in ANY form without a church member present. This leads me to believe they are nervous about him saying the wrong thing. If his aunt is so sure this decision is his... let his friends and others who love him talk with him instead of refusing to let anyone near him or monitoring his every move. Sadly enough, it will take death for this wonderful young man to realize the impact he's made on the hearts of those around him and I can assure you that when I hear a knock on my door next time and find Jehovah's Witnesses trying to "share the good news", I may just welcome them in and try and save them from themselves rather than ducking into the bathroom and pretending I'm not home.

wait. wait I think he should have a transfusion. if it's a matter of life or death and relgion I would choose life. maybe thats becasue I'm not a jehovah, but he has his whole life. why not live it to the fullest and get a blood transfusion so he could live to see highschool graduation or his first highschool dance. if he wants to live honnor his choice don't bring religion into it.

I can see that the Jehovah's Witness congregation is already doing damage control here with their posts to this blog. I really wish that someone would do an expose on this very dangerous CULT. How can a child who has been brainwashed by this group make an adult decision. The Watchtower bible and tract society is one of the largest publishing corporations in the world. And as a result they wield a deadly blow to innocent followers. Just look at their history.

This is such a sad case. You are dead right Elton. Jehovah Witnesses are a VERY dangerous cult. A little lesson on history. In the past 30 years the JW doctrine on blood has changed many times. Every change keeps them one more step away from a class action suit. It wasn't long ago that organ transplants were considered a form of canniblism, yet they are now allowed. How many people died needlessly over that? I wonder if those dead people had a choice, I wonder if they would make the same choice? The blood issue is radically different now than it used to be as well, as they are now allowed blood fractions. And lastly, anyone with a childs education of the bible can understand that the abstinance of blood was for dietary purpose, not life and death situations. If heaven and hell exist, then there is a very special place in hell for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

As the above poster commented, this child is in a situation where he has been brainwashed. Jehovah's witnesses are expected to attend 5 meetings a week where they are repetitively told the same Biblical interpretation of the Bible (JW's interpretation)over and over. They are taught that anyone who questions their docrine are to be removed and all who have been removed even if they are close family are not to be spoken to. The family knows, too, that if they were to allow a blood transfusion they would be shunned by all they considered friends and in a community where your only friends ARE JW's that is a lonely choice. This is not a logical well informed choice made by an adult. It is a choice based on their interpretation of ancient Biblical laws that have nothing to do with our present society. JW's are not even allowed to research ancient theologies unless the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has written it. No outside information is to be trusted. Is this a cult? Yes it is.

we aren't a cult, i would not be a member of a cult. it is offensive to me that you would think i would be so soft headed that i would follow like a blind sheep while i'm led to the slaughter. again, i'm sorry you don't agree with our beliefs, but don't stoop to saying things that are untrue and hurtful, please.

I wanted to add how sad this case makes the justice system look. The system in North America is pathetic in educating judges on this issue. Of course no one get get to the boy alone, he is surrounded by what is called the HLC (Hospital Liason Commitee) They are the ones who make sure he doesn't change his mind. Kudo's to the reporter who wrote the story. Shame on the judge who helped kill him. That boy's blood is on his head. I hope he remembers this case in a few years when JW's allow blood transfusions. I'm just sick to my stomach over this

I'm so saddened by the fact that a 14 year old boy, who has so many years of life ahead of him to live, has to make a decision to live or die? I do understand that there are those who support and applaud his decision... but I don't think and never will agree with the fact that this is so cut and dry. The JW beliefs have changed so many times over the years. What was wrong 20 years ago, is a consience matter now in so many things. What's to say it won't change again next week or next month? Then it might be too late to do this young man any good. All who say 'Just say no' have in most cases never had to choose if their mother, father, loved one or child, lives or dies. It's life and death people. Bravo for those that think outside the doctrine taught, and choose to LIVE! There are so many of us out here Dennis, who want to see you recover and live your life. This is personal to us, and we're fighting for you even if you don't know us. Good health to you! and unconditional love is out here just waiting too!

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and was also one for many years as an adult. I can assure you that Dennis' aunt & congregation are keeping Witnesses only around him 24/7 to make sure he doesn't take a blood transfusion. It is not his decision, in that if he chooses to take one, he would be disfellowshipped and shunned by his family & friends who are Witnesses. How can a child make that decision with all that pressure?? He can't.

Interesting JW's claim that blood is sacred to God as it represents life, and yet they refuse to use it to preserve said sacred life.

Nowhere does the Bible say anything about not taking blood in your veins to preserve your life. It only says not to eat it. JW's use an illustration: "If a dr. told you to abstain from alcohol, not only could you not drink it, you couldn't inject it in your veins..." It isn't the same thing. If a person was starving to death and was given multiple blood transfusions instead of food, he would still die. A transfusion of blood replaces the volume of blood lost (much like replacing an organ) which is needed to sustain life, nothing more. No nourishment is gained by a blood transfusion, as would be the case when eating or drinking the blood, which is forbidden. This illustration often used by the JW's does apply with alcohol and other digestible foods, but not for blood. It simply stays in your system indefinitely.

Also, the scripture quoted above and in the Hebrew scriptures that JW's use all refer specifically to eating or drinking ANIMAL blood. The blood of the animal that had been killed was to be "poured out" rather than eaten or drank. This token act of faith demonstrated to God that the life that had been taken belongs to him. The blood of the animal represents the life of that animal. Humans (according to Biblical belief) do have the right to take animals for food only because the creator allows us to do so. Pouring out the blood first, acknowledges this arrangement. By including modern day blood transfusions in the current application of these verses however (which is not the same as eating or drinking of animal blood), the JW Governing Body is going beyond what is actually written in its application. In addition, the one supplying the blood for a transfusion has not died at all, which was always the case when an animal was bled. A "living" donor instead provides the needed volume of blood-fluid that has been lost for another "living" individual. And in many cases over the years, as a last resort this has been and can still be a life-saving medical act. In other cases by refusing this particular medical treatment because of their stand against blood transfusions, lives have been and will continue to be lost. A girl of only 21 just lost her life a month ago after giving birth to twins and holding them. Why will her twins grow up without a mother? Because the JW Governing Body twists scriptures to make this 'rule' that has to be followed or else you are ousted.

Interesting also that JW's can now 'legally' (according to their faith)take 95% of the components of blood, but cannot take it combined as a whole! Crazy?!!

Organ transplants used to be prohibited, as well as vaccinations. These are both 'legal' now (they call them a "conscience matter") and I and others foresee that blood transfusions will be legal soon in JW land. What a shame that Daniel must lose his life before the "light gets brighter" (as JW's say when they change their doctrines)for the old farts in Brooklyn and they decide it's ok to save your life with blood. I guarantee you all JW's will get transfusions with no problem then.

Mrs P, please. You're not in a cult? I know you can't see it, but this boy is being LED to the slaughter. He will die shortly, and it will be for Judge Rutherford, who imposed the blood rule. He was a drunk moron who spent his days in an alcoholic haze waiting for Armageddon. He bought a house for King David called Beth Sarim, remember that? Nope, even though it's in your precious watchtower, no one talks about it anymore. No matter, the end of the world is just around the corner. It's coming in 1914, no wait, 1918, I mean 1925, no no 1936. Crap, I really meant 1976, 1984, 2000?. My bad, our good old judge said "Millions now living, will never die" That was in 1932. How many of those people are still around? Get your head out of your ass. If you don't wake up, you'll die saying, but it's just around the corner!!!

Mrs. p is 100% right.
Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that follows evverything from the bible.People who make such hurtful comments about witnesses do not know one bit about the religion. Jehovahs witnesses do not accept blood transfusions because the creator of our very earth Jehovah(psalms 83:18) views blood as sacred.

Stacy - Thank you for all that info. It was so long I almost didn't read it but am glad I did. I am very Catholic, but learning about other religions is interesting. I am also a clinician and have never met this boy. Yes, many religions are "cults" and then there is the religion that drinks their morning urine...yea, saw that on Discovery Channel. Anyway, yes….some religions are crazy, some are not. I personally think the JW group is more than a little odd, (and don’t like the ones I know personally) but really....none of us know for sure. They could be right. Boy, I hope not, but no one can be sure - kind of like evolution. We think, we interpret and we gather "evidence" but we never REALLY 100% know if we evolved from apes. They say there is proof, One skull of “proof” was actually a pig or something. We are human’s guessing about the past and the divine….literally God only knows. As sure as we think we are, we can never be 100% with out a doubt sure until it’s too late. If we look back in history at all the things humans have been wrong about – like the Boston witch hunts, virgin sacrifices – there is real proof that we can never be sure we are right. That is why it is faith. Again, I think the JW group is a little crazy but I know my first communion looks a little ‘cult-like’ to some as well. We are in America and wonderfully we all have choices. If we don’t like his choice we can at least be grateful he has one and remember the blessing of America is we CAN make the choice even if others don’t agree with it or think we are crazy. If the boy dies and there is a God, like I believe there is, then he will go to heaven and why would we want to stop him from that? He’ll be better off than any of us.

Mrs. P doesn't know she's in a cult. I didn't when I was in. It wasn't till I was out of the brainwashing that I could see it clearly.

An illustration as to the ridiculousness of the JW standpoint on blood....If you had a plate with meat, potatoes, vegetables and gravy and you said you cannot eat this meal, but then said you can eat the meat, on its own, you can eat the potatoes, on their own, you can eat the vegetables, on their own...you cant have the gravy though.

This is exactly the stance of the JWs on blood. You cannot have whole blood, but just what can you take in fractions, on their own...?

If you discount the membranes of the red cells, white cells and platelets, they are allowing somewhere between 97 and 98% of the blood. However, the membrane is stroma (protein/enzyme) and as a fraction it too would be permitted. So technically the WTS permits 100% of the blood in fractionated form.

This is ludicrous and people are dying because of these stupid teachings. If you are not going to allow blood, dont allow ANY of it , period. Only the mind-controlled JWs cannot see this. From an ex JW elder, 40 years in it.

Hurtful comments Cody? Get a grip on yourself. You're already in danger of being df'd, just for being on this thread. You know that don't you? If you're unsure, just ask an elder. I won't be baited into taking this thing in a different direction. This is about a boy named Daniel who is going to die. It's typical cult diversion to get the subject matter off base. Daniel will die, there is no doubt. If we are lucky we can soon ban all jw's and their idiotic beliefs.And soon, no one will have to die.

Well, me being raised as a Jehovah's Witness, I agree with his decision. Every Jehovah's Witness in this world has to make his/her decision. Even if he were to live, he would go through his whole life going through blood transfusion after another. So respect his decision because he believes in a paradise earth. Where in Isaiah 33:24 states, "And no resident will say: "I am sick." So in paradise earth there will be no sickness like Dennis' leukemia. We also shun things like lying, adultery, stealing, smoking, and the use of blood. But because we govern our lives by God's Word. Not cause we have to,
but because we want to. Since blood is not always safe its better.

Jessica, It's not your decision...you know that don't you sweetie? It's the 14 old men in Brooklyn who decide what you can do or not in your personal life. It sounds really quaint to say every JW decides for themselves, but that is not true. The Governing Body decides for you and you know it. What they say, goes.

Even if Daniel wanted a transfusion, he knows the consequence of that decision is losing all his friends and family to shunning. That is no 'choice' Jessica. That is not freedom, it's slavery.

Instead of continuing to slam one person's religious beliefs or another's lack of faith, let's consider a more secular view. In the state of Washington a child of 14 can make the decision get an abortion without parent consent or knowledge. Thus, a child of 14 can decide another human's life, but in the case of this young man he cannot decide his own? Before we continue to bash another's conviction, let's sit back and question our own. There is no easy answer to this nor will there be a right answer when secular values clash with faith. Let's quit dehumanizing judges because they make a tough call and people of faith because they believe differently.

um a cult? is that really the right word? I know nothing of the jehovahs relgion. except the fact that they refuse blood transfusions. what i want to know is why. you have a young boy who is going to die in a matter of days, from lukemia and he can't have a blood transfusion?he's not going to live to see highschool if he doesn't get this blood transfusion! religion is important yes. but how far are you willing to to take your belifs if a young person who has their whole life in front of them is going to die. please don't take his life away from him because of what your religion believes. let him live a full life to the best of his abilities.

And Jessica? If JW's shun lying then why is the Governing Body lying to you? About their generation prophecy, about being an NGO of the UN, about the changing blood policy?

They do not shun those things, they shun PEOPLE, Jessica. That is not Christ like. Christ never shunned anyone, not the prostitutes or sinners. :)

One other interesting point: JW's are willing to pay out huge amounts in settlements to protect pedophiles in their organization (did you know that Jessica? Google it...they did it just recently again!!)

They will protect pedophiles and WILL NOT PROTECT A CHILD'S LIFE.

it is entirely understandable that people call it a cult or they dont understand the reason why dennis refused a blood transfusion. i wonder if, the Holy Bible said anything about not taking chemo therapy, or other alternative treatments if ones would be making such a fuss. if the doctors told dennis that chemo therapy would save his life, if he refused it, would there be such a fuss? I doubt it. dennis has passed away faithful to his god, Jehovah, and he was proud to do it, he did not want to die, he was a very vibrant young man, he always had a hug for anyone. anyone who has known him would know that dennis had a real respect for life and for others, how can they say that he has been misguided. anyone who says that they know him, truly does not truly know the dennis that so many of us know, otherwise they would have nothing but the utmost respect and honor for the stand that he has taken. for all the ones to say something about the judge, why dont you take a look at the transcripts, especially from the main doctor who testified on dennis' behalf, who said that he had to honor dennis' wishes, read the transcript, the doctor was not misinformed. we will see you dennis in the new world. your faith and integrity are an inspiration. we love and will truly miss you.

This incredible kid is named Dennis not Daniel.

wow alex you have a very interesting opinion on jehovahs belifs. of course. this is America. freedom of choice, freedom of religion. you're allowed to practice any religion you want. don't bad mouth people's relgions. everyone's entitled to their owna opinion. yes this is a horrible situation. and personally I would have a transfusion no matter what my religion belived in. but this is HIS choice. so if he doesn't want a blood transfusion then he doesn't havd to have one. believe me. I'm just as upset about it as you are. but honnestly. don't take this out on the other people who post their comments. its not helping.

thank you correction, for the correction, dennis deserves to honored, not daniel, although, daniel from the bible certainly desreves our consideration.

As one of Jehovahs Witnesses, all who are commenting on poor boy being so called forced into this decision, instead of being so negative, why don't all just honor and respect his decision. His parents should of thought of all the consequences before putting their lifes pleasures in front of their childs! Isn't that what we are taught to do? Maybe all should take lesson from this! This young man no doubt is clinging to that great promise found in John 5:28&29, where it reads, when they hear his voice, all will come out to a resurrection of life! Don't be bitter, be happy for this Dennis, can't we do that for him?

Why would any of you want this boy to have blood forced on him and make him feel he had sold his relationship with God for a little more time on this horrible earth? No one can even say that blood transfusions would add any time to his life, and if it violated his faith and destroyed his relationship with God, of what benefit would those few extra days or weeks be to him? Just because your conscience allows you to do whatever it takes to save your life, don't condemn someone who feels there is more to our responsibility to our creator than just surviving.

I spent 29 of my 39 years in the jw organization and unfortunately the jw's are not correct on so many things as well as they keep changing their minds on so many things I have to ask you: Are you willing to risk not saving this child and becoming personally bloodguilty yourself? Are you prepared to live with that? At least humor me please and read the rest of my post...

I am a 3rd generation jw and have a broad background on the organization. If fact, technically, I am still a Jehovah's Witness although a very happily inactive and (now) totally disengaged one. I simply haven't disassociated myself out of respect for my aged parents.

Yes, if any are wondering about issues, there are many but time seems to be the main factor here so it is difficult to present all relevant issues.

For starters, I would consider the research already presented regarding abuse issues at: www.silentlambs.org

These 'policies' by the jws do originate with the governing body. In fact, if you care to see what one former member of the governing body says of the organization he ran and you are currently in, his website is located at:
www.commentarypress.com
That is Raymond Franz who helped write the huge 'Aid to Bible Understanding' Book that many older Jehovah's Witnesses will remember.

This is a SERIOUS issue. We are talking about a 14 year old's life here. Please stop. Please think.

Thank you.
Ron

Even though,I strongly believe in God and I believe that, ultimately, God is with Dennis and helping him be peaceful in this struggle, the judge in this case "did not" make a thoughtful decision. The judge had a huge opportunity to stand up for this child and make the right choice and he "did not". If we had to stand by every decision we made at 14 years old or in our teen years or for that matter, our young adult years, I am quite sure our perspective would be different and some choices would be made differently. How can a 14 year old possibly process his rough start in childhood and then the pressures of the strong religious beliefs of the family that took him in? Dennis or any other young person under the best of childhood circumstances is not emotionally mature enough to make this life ending decision. It is heart wretching to know this wonderful boy could be saved by the adult community around him and the decision comes down to one person who somehow feels this 14 year old has the wisdom and religious conviction of an adult.

I am all for religous freedom for adults, a 14 year old is just not an adult.

How sad.

Some info: Yes, the Jehovah's Witnesses' ban on blood is coercive. This has been known to the medical profession for years, it has been reported in medical journals. If this boy or his JW guardian accepted the blood transfusion, they would be disfellowshipped (excommunicated, shunned) on the spot, without appeal. Doctors also know that if they can get the sacrificial victim, er, faithful JW on his or her own, without the Hospital Liaison Committee members or local 'elders' present, a good number of JWs will accept the life-saving blood transfusion... on condition that it be kept confidential, so they don't have to suffer the disciplinary actions of their congregation.

Furthermore, this is in no way an informed decision. Yes, JWs will recite certain bible verses and claim that Jehovah God Himself has forbidden them from accepting a blood transfusion. However, almost all are ignorant of the history of the blood ban within the JW movement (it began during WW II, when giving blood was seen as a patriotic way of supporting the war effort). Most JWs also believe that refusing blood transfusions is a sound medical decision, having been fed lies and distortions about the medical profession in general and blood transfusions in particular for many years. Most JWs view their refusal as a protection... from dying. Most JWs are also of the opinion that there exist valid alternatives to blood, and that doctors simply refuse to give them... because they like to persecute JWs.

The bottom line is that this adolescent boy is going to die. He will never get the chance to research this 'Truth' his aunt indoctrinated him with, he will never truly understand what is at stake, he will never know that he was misled by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society about the necessity for and dangers associated with blood transfusions. He will die a sacrificial victim, one more in the long list (thousands) of 'faithful' Jehovah's Witnesses who's number came up in the great Death Lottery.

As pre-med student who also used to be a Jehovahs Witness, my opinion is, while taking religion into consideration TO A REASONABLE DEGREE, there is no sound justification for the unnecessary death of a 14 year old. 'The bible' is in NO way ANY type of textbook of anatomy or physiology, and should UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES be consulted or referred to in regards to medical advice, even more especially to a situation of a life and death nature. I urge the courts to step in and prevent harm to this young human being.

I have worked in the ER for close to 5 years now, and I know that people who wish to die are termed one thing...suicidal. People who wish to forego medical attention which could prove to be life-saving are in need of psychiatric and legal mediation. This poor young man has obviously been brainwashed into believing that he is being a hero and doing 'the right thing', but anyone familiar with cults and their ideology knows that such thoughts are influenced heavily by the cult group.

Again, I urge someone to step in and prevent any tragedy from occurring. These people attempting to quote 'scripture' and profess 'God's view' are doing nothing other than condone murder. Please do not allow this young human being to become a martyr for the twisted sake of self-righteous members of a cult religion which believes its members are the 'chosen people' and that all non-JWs will eventually perish. There attempts at rationalization are exactly the same as fundamentalist snake-handling cult religions, and should similarly be immediately discredited and disregarded.

I pray that someone decides to step in and save this young man's life.

I hope so too mig. this boy has every right to make a decision for a blood transfusion as anyone. it doesn't matter if the jehovah thinkblood is sacred. I think he should have this transfusion. it's going to save his life. and let him live a few more years.

Who says that he has to have blood at all? There are numerous blood replacement treatments available. Would not one of these work equally as well? Then he could have the treatment, and still have a clean conscience.

These replacements do not contain any blood products at all, and many physicians prefer to use these as they are safer to use. You do not have to worry about blood type or tainted blood.

As a side note, in this country we have certain freedoms, like the freedom to believe what you want. Think about that before you start bashing other peoples beliefs. They are allowed to think what they want, whether you agree or not.

I cling to the fact as Dennis does,if he was to stoop below his bible trained conscious and give in, he would taint his precious relationship with Jehovah, thats where the bloodguilty lies. I am saddened to hear that you have lost your love for the truth..Actually, there is nothing out there, trust me..i've searched all religions in my life. Jehovahs Witnesses are the only true religion that adheres strictly to gods word the bible. So go with that note, don't say the governing body..they adhere only to the bible. But remember, adam and eve made us imperfect, so we all fall short many times, if this is your case...seek Jehovah while he still may be found..

The majority of people here who are 'bashing' the beliefs have been JWs themselves and their lives have been impacted negatively by this Organization. I think they have every right to 'bash' it as they know how dangerous the beliefs of the JWs ultimately are.

My brother who is a heart specialist, a non witness, will not put a blood transfusion through anybody in his family! Isn't that an eyeopener, someone who has over 20 years experience? That should tell on its own.

From another news site, http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/341458_leukemia29.html, related from the father,

"He said doctors told him Wednesday evening that the teenager, who has been unconscious since Tuesday, likely has suffered brain damage. He is not likely to regain consciousness, he was told."

There is no fossil evidence of an 'Adam and Eve'. Caleb, you can cling to the thought that you have 'the truth', but that doesn't make it so. I feel so sorry for you and I hope that you never have to go through the same type of situation that poor Dennis has.

I am so thankful, and will always be thankful, for escaping that cult.

I'm sorry that I can't be more tactful, I really want to be, but I have bile in my throat. For all you Jehovah Witnesses who celebrate the death of a child to the ultimate drunk Rutherford. Karma is a real bitch. You'll feel it's wrath soon enough.

Shame on KING 5 for presenting such a biased, one-sided news story and shame on all of YOU for dishonoring Dennis by using this as a means to to slam a particular faith. It must be very blissful in your ignorant worlds.

You have to ask yourself what happens to this young man if he was to choose to save his own life. Having grown up as a JW – he will be treated as dead by all those who claim to love him. Yes. Kick him out; don’t association with him; don’t talk to him. What option is that? Anybody who says that is not the case is not telling the “truth”. At 14 years old – what blood guilt would he have? None.

Yes. I grew up a JW with a father as an elder. No, I was never disfellowshipped or any other such circumstance. In this case… let just call it what it is.. wrong. Blood guilt will be on those who in a position of influence – did nothing. And those who gave council and said they didn’t.

The media is especially quick to point out any Jehovah's Witness that is in a news story. Yet, the religious status of other people in the news is not stated. We never read about the "Catholic Senator" or the "Morman Store Clerk" or the "Presbyterian Janitor". Why is that? There are over 6 Million Jehovah's Witnesses world wide and yet the uninformed or ignorant still feel the need to refer to them as a cult. Every religion has at least one aspect that others (outside of that religion) don't, won't or can't understand. Morman's have their Temple Ceremonies and secret wedding undergarmets, Catholics have their Confessionals and prayer beads. Religion is one of the most personal decisions that anyone can make. No person, group, or government has the right to challenge that decision. Or to try to usurp it based on their own beliefs. Otherwise, some people would want to force birth control on certain religions, force others to eat certain foods, and , again, the list is endless. In essence - it is his choice and he as well as his decision should be respected - not questioned, belittled, or ridiculed.

This is the problem with this country. We have no respect for other people's beliefs and cultures. This is not something you, me and especially the Government has any business being involved in. He and his guardians have a right to practice their beliefs according to the first amendment, whether or not the majority of us would do what he/they are doing or not.

Bud out! This is why the rest of the world HATES us.

This is so sad. I cannot believe a 14 year old boy would willingly die. I am amazed and saddened that the judge favored the cult. I am curious as to why the judge didn't speak to the young man alone in his room without the cult members being present.
As a child growing up in the UK, we had neighbors who were JW's. The father regularly abused his wife and children, and was a complete and utter nut. When their two year old son was injured in a car accident and they refused the transfusion, the courts stepped in to save the child. As adults, all nine of the kids 'escaped' the cult, and severed ties with the family. As a kid at school I remember the kids from this family telling other kids about a huge flood that was going to happen and all of us who were not JW's were going to drown. It made an impact on me as a nine year old. It certainly didn't have the desired effect - rather than wanting to join them, I found them quite frightening and steered clear.

To the person who said we should be happy for Dennis - I am speechless - I think you need help!

As a parent, I am outraged. As a cancer survivor, I am saddened.

JK

Like people forcing others to relinquish their reproductive rights based on the religious beliefs of others?

ok. i've already said this once. the great thing about America is that your titled to your OWN OPINION. this has nothing to do with why the rest of the world hates us. I think we should leave it at that.

I think that this boy needs to be shown the full facts of how this disease will kill him. However, it is his life and no one else, not even his parents or a judge, or a doctor should be able to say how it will go. He should be the only one to have the final verdict.

I have a nutty catholic who is a druggy that is my neighbor across the street, below me i have a verbal abuser and basher a so called christian. Why is everyone bashing the witnesses? There is negative in all religion, look at the big picture. Just because some families are unhappy about the witnesses, that doesn't mean we are crazy! Maybe individually, we need some attitude readjusting, perhaps that is one reason why you are picking on the witnesses!

Faith won't save him. A blood transfusion will. I wish him luck.

The JW's are telling their 'spiritual families' that Dennis passed away this evening around 6.

The fight to protect him from the half truths his "spiritual family" were telling him and us all has failed.

I am sorry so very sorry that this terribly wonderful young man had to die in such an awful way.

The reason the JWs are being bashed is because they just let a 14 year old boy die. The catholic and christian religions do indeed carry their own weight of imperfection, except...they most likely wouldn't let a 14 year old boy die. Many JWs are fanatical, and if you're one and can't admit that, you're simply blinding yourself and you know it.

Peace to Dennis, I hope that he finds happiness on another travel.

I see that the faithful followers of the Cult are in full service to Jehovah here....that is what you refer to isn't it? For those concerned people here that are posting with common sense and logic, unfortunately it is falling on blind eyes. This is how Cults work! For the most part the drones that follow this belief system will never be put directly in a position as Dennis. For us that have lost loved ones or just friends know the pain of useless death. It is interesting that the JW's would immediately point out what they percieve as the radical belief systems of Islam, Buddhism and so forth. But they cannot see the extremities of their own beliefs. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has done an excellent job. Bin Ladens efforts pale in comparrison.

He is a child. He is not 18. I do not understand how any parent, judge or guardian can deny this child his life.

Jessica wrote

Where in Isaiah 33:24 states, "And no resident will say: "I am sick." So in paradise earth there will be no sickness like Dennis' leukemia. We also shun things like lying, adultery, stealing, smoking, and the use of blood. But because we govern our lives by God's Word. Not cause we have to,
but because we want to. Since blood is not always safe its better"

I have to say this

First, dont you (JW) belive that the chosen number of people in paradise is already fixed? That no one who is not already chosen can get in? Why then was this young man told that he was "securing his place in paradise?"
You say you (JW) shun lying as you govern yourselves by God's Word. God's WORD became flesh and is living and breathing. God's WORD does not attest to half truths in fact the scriptures state in Revelation that NO LIARS will be allowed in to paradise - why then all the half truths (which by the way is considered a LIE by mere definition) being told and allowed by your JW "SPIRITUAL FAMILY" MEMBERS?

Why is it that this auntie who professed to love Dennis wouldnt accept his friends? Why would she call teen agers who were struggling to deal with his illness his adversaries and told them they were being used by SATAN, why would she not read encouraging words sent to him by loving friends and teachers (reading ONLY JW member's writing)? What gives? IF you truly love you dont lie - if you truly accept your faith - you share willingly you dont condemn

Another issue
This If Dennis was totally at peace with his decision not to have blood and totally at peace with the knowledge that this denial of RED BLOOD CELLS would be his death, WHY THEN WAS HE WAKING IN NIGHT TERRORS scared to death? Something does not match up with the info we saw, we were told, and the knowledge we have from personal experience with patients dying.

Eh. So he died. What's one more death to these people? When does the death of an innocent 14 year-old become so meaningless that Jehovah's Witnesses are complaining that people are 'picking on them'? I presume we were too polite for them to complain of outright 'persecution'.

No, other religions do not get a free pass. When the Catholic Church was caught protecting pedophiles, they were dragged through the courts and before the public, and they have paid out billions in damages. When will the families of the victims of the Jehovah's Witnesses' coercive blood ban get together for a class action suit?

This dangerous cult has killed thousands, many of them children, and they killed again tonight. Ooops. Sorry. Freedom of religion and all, I need to stop picking on them. Yet another JW has remained faithful 'til death, expecting his promised reward in the Utopic 'New System'. The funeral talk will explain it all.

I think this is terrible that any Judge in their right mind would rule for a 14 year old to make this choice of such magnitude. This is a child were talking about NOT an adult. JW are nothing but a cult. This story truly disgusts me. I feel bad for the child who is/was brainwashed into these teachings.

Religious matters aside. If this boy takes the blood, are the doctors 100% positive and can absolutely guarantee this will save his life? Will he be cured for good? No Chemo nothing, just blood & boom cured.
Or will his suffering only last longer?

IF Dennis would have been given blood back when he was admitted, the doctors gave him the numbers of a 90 % cure rate. 9 of 10 patient survival rate is excellent by any medical standards - not perfect as one would really want but as good as one can get when a loved one is facing a terrible illness.
However his RBCs kept falling. His hematicrit was at a 5.4 earlier this week but then it seemed almost too late. This last ditch effort came too late to really do much good for this wonderful young man.

The only thing I'd like to comment on is that in the TV news report, it was stated that Jehovah's Witnesses "deny medical treatment".

That is definitely not the case.

Most Jehovah's Witnesses are very well-informed of their health care choices.

A sad fact is that blood transfusions are sometimes a crutch that otherwise capable surgeons use when they really should be more careful and/or use less invasive, modern bloodless treatment.

Some links so that everyone can be more informed of what can be done without blood in surgery:

http://www.noblood.org/

http://pennhealth.com/health_info/bloodless/

http://www.noblood-miami.com/english/default.asp

http://www.swedish.org/body.cfm?id=133

Charles Taze Russell was no different then Jim Jones or David Karesh, when he founded the Watch Tower and Tract Society in approx. 1906. But since current members of the Jehovah’s Witness are forbidden to read anything other than the propaganda that is force fed to them, they are ignorant of the atrocious history of the very “religion” they are devoted to. There is no need to get angry or frustrated with them, anymore than you should with a child. It is futile to call them a cult, even though the definition of one fits them perfectly. Particularly the divide and conquer method of control. Doesn’t anybody wonder why they don’t celebrate birthdays, Christmas, and many other traditional celebrations (even I agree many are commercial)? So they stand out as different and are misunderstood in society, this proves they are unique and special, aka, “chosen“. Also in the process, they alienate themselves from friends, family, classmates, co-workers, etc. So the only recourse is to find support among themselves. Tidy little plan to keep them controlled, isn’t it? My heart breaks for the children. Viewing their non JW friend with sadness because they will die in Armageddon. Having to sit out while their classmates make Valentine’s cards. I can go on for days! The children! Including Dennis Lindberg who dies for an organization that nets multi-millions of $ a year so their New York leaders can live in luxury, while the masses huddle in their pitiful Kingdom Halls. Only education can stop the insanity, so please...learn what you can about why the JW’s do what they do, that is your best chance to guide one/them back to fine a cohesive life here, and after.

We have seen many differing opinions on this subject tonight. I find it interesting reading the posts by the members of Jehovah Witness. Especially since they are in violation of the rules of the cult that they are members of. What really needs to be done here is to change the laws that prohibit Judges from protecting the innocent ones (Dennis)from extremists such as the Jehovah Witness's. I find it interesting that situations far less than this, if handled by CPS (child protective services)would have resulted in the immediate protection of the child. Here is something else, I see post after post refering to Dennis as a "young man"...are you kidding or just delusional. Dennis was a CHILD. I would hope that King 5 would treat this with far more importance than just another story to sell the evening news. But then again perhaps I am just delustional myself.

This story has upset me greatly this evening. It is clear that Jehovah Witnesses do not have a clear understanding of who God really is. I believe in a compassionate loving God who would not want a responsible adult to endanger the life a child just to satisfy his or her own misguided beliefs, which includes taking scripture out of context and not looking at the bigger picture. In my mind, Dennis' aunt is responsible for his death. And I think the judge bears some responsibility as well. As others here have said, Dennis was a *child*....this was a decision for an adult to make and since his legal guardian was not making a responsible decision, the court should have ruled that he have the blood transfusions.

And to the JW's posting here, since you take one scripture so seriously, you may just want to remember the part in the Bible where Jesus says that it would be better for one to have a milstone thrown around his neck and be thrown to the bottom of the sea than to harm the life of a child!

I have so many emotions right now its hard to focus on what I want to say with out letting the anger and rage overpower the message. I remember the first time I met Dennis; he was dressed in a blue bear costume. Morgan introduced him to me as her "boy friend" (her first one) but his Aunt could not find out. He had that big grin on his face. I can remember how he used to call the house when his Aunt wasn't around so he could talk to Morgan. I remember a young teenager stealing glances when the Aunt was around and waiting for just the right moment when he was out of earshot to say "hello". Morgan remembers too. Although they became just good freinds over the past couple of years that freindship was special. To bad Morgan wasn't allowed to see Dennis one last time before he died.

I wonder who is responsible for this? Is it the Judge? If so we can vote him out next election maybe we can find a 14 year old to run against him. Hey if you are old enough at 14 to make life and death decisions you must be as smart as any judge or doctor. Maybe it is the doctors who are at fault in this.They don't seem to follow their oath anymore. I'm sure the Aunt needs to shoulder a good portion of the blame also, but I'll bet if you ask her she'll tell you it was all Dennis' decision; she was just following his wishes.

The ones who are really to blame are ourselves for allowing this crap to happen. We were so worried about not offending anyone that we allowed Dennis to be used as a martyr to be sacrificed for a screwed up cult!! And if you JW's don't like my attitude to bad!!!

Thank you to Jason Kelley for his post 5:17pm Nov 28th. It really is the essence of the reality for Dennis. You made very a very respectful and dignified post.

For Elton's post Nov 28th 5:56pm Our meetings are free and open to the public try and come for a week's worth of meetings? Bring YOUR bible??

Hebrews 10: 24, 25

A note to Cody regarding your comment that
"Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that follows evverything from the bible."

Yeah, right...and every Christian-based or pseudo-Christian based religion would say the same thing....please stop deluding yourself that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. I am a Christian, yet I certainly don't claim that I interpret everything in the Bible correctly...it is quite arrogant to do so....I think we all will be in for a surprise when we meet God face-to-face and find out that our way of interpreting things wasn't the correct one after all :o!

Alex's post Nov 28th 6:22pm Where are your facts??? Where is Heaven? Above? Yes, it is said in Genesis 1:1,6-8, now where do you find Hell exactly?? I haven't seen that in my bible....

To W. Byrd's post Nov 28, 6:22pm "They are taught that anyone who questions their docrine are to be removed." I don't know where or how you were taught such a thought but I couldn't disagree more. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and have been for quite some time...never have I personally learned or been shown that if I question something I am learning then I will be removed from this religion.

Thank you to jrl for his/her post 5:17pm Nov 28th. "In essence - it is his choice and he as well as his decision should be respected - not questioned, belittled, or ridiculed." Even after death.....
Thank you you made a respectful and dignified comment.

For Cody's post Nov 28th 6:56pm
"Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that follows evverything from the bible.... Jehovahs witnesses do not accept blood transfusions because the creator of our very earth Jehovah(psalms 83:18) views blood as sacred."
Look it up in your bible: Here is a start Genesis 1:1 God creates everything. Then read thru the next few chapters to get a sense of what all is created; how Cain kills Abel; then, the Nephilim come about and do harm. Then the Noah account. Now within this accounting of events after the earth and all bad is destroyed thru the Great Deluge God blesses Noah and his family and says to them: "read Genesis 9:1-6" So they are commanded to not eat flesh with it's soul - its blood. Continue in vs 11-13 plus vs 16.

To Kathy who posted Nov 28th at 7:56pm:

BEAUTIFUL!!!
Thank you!

To Katherine for her post Nov 28th @ 8:16pm: "Why would any of you want this boy to have blood forced on him and make him feel he had sold his relationship with God for a little more time on this horrible earth? No one can even say that blood transfusions would add any time to his life, and if it violated his faith and destroyed his relationship with God, of what benefit would those few extra days or weeks be to him? Just because your conscience allows you to do whatever it takes to save your life, don't condemn someone who feels there is more to our responsibility to our creator than just surviving."

Excellent points! Thank you......for the respect and dignity shown!!

If your going to actually read this: ".....by Ron" posted Nov 28th 8:17pm
Then please add to your reading the Official Website for Jehovah's Witnesses at www.watchtower.org
Might as well 'get the feed directly from the horses mouth'...or Next time on of Jehovah's people knocks on your door feel free to ask any one or more of them to explain their beliefs. Please.... open the door and let's get some dialog going.

Lori, you are completely deluded. Girl, you KNOW it's true that if you question the doctrines of your religion you would be kicked out. Actually if you even doubt in your mind it's considered apostasy by your religion! Ask an elder Lori. The fact that you have 'never personally learned or been shown' it means nothing. That's the way they do it; they reel you in slowly and then you find out those things after you're baptized and trapped. It's a fact; people have been df'd from your religion for sincere questions and doubts. Even for thinking them, or confessing to one person their sincere doubt.

All the JW's posting here think they are being 'persecuted' and it reaffirms their faith that they have 'The Truth' (as if there is such a thing.) They are taught that their persecution proves they have 'The Truth'. They deliberately make these rules (no blood, political neutrality, no holidays, etc.) so that they will be 'persecuted' and then when it happens, the rank and file realize they have 'The Truth'! Great little cult plan, isn't it?

They cannot realize that they are brainwashed, because that's the very essence of brainwashing. They are completely deluded into thinking a 14 year olds' death is something wonderful.

Thank you Gary Curry, for the personal information on Dennis. It confirms what I thought. Raised as a JW, I can relate to poor Dennis having to keep his love for a 'worldly girl' (isn't that a horrible phrase??) secret because the cult members would disapprove. There is no way he'd be allowed to have a girlfriend who was not a JW....too dangerous for him to be led out of the cult! I'm so sorry Morgan wasn't able to see him before he died. (((Morgan))) That shows what a cult they are that they would keep anyone who wasn't in their religion out. Poor Dennis wasn't allowed to see the people he really loved. They had to or Dennis may have chosen to save his life.

Thank you, too, Ellie Mae for telling us the reality of Dennis' thoughts that the JW's didn't want us to know. I'm sure he was having night terrors! He was being forced to choose to DIE! What child wouldn't be freaking out over that?! You said "Why is it that this auntie who professed to love Dennis wouldnt accept his friends? Why would she call teen agers who were struggling to deal with his illness his adversaries and told them they were being used by SATAN, why would she not read encouraging words sent to him by loving friends and teachers (reading ONLY JW member's writing)?" I know you are telling the truth because having grown up JW, that is exactly what happens. Anyone outside the religion, especially if they were trying to help him save his life, would be considered an adversary from Satan. They are messed up, Ellie Mae. I'm so sorry your friend Dennis was involved in this cult. Thank you for sharing with us the truth of the matter.

It's nice to hear from people (non JW) who knew the REAL Dennis; not the JW's who call his decision & death 'beautiful' and spew crap to support their crazy beliefs.

May Dennis rest in peace.

Lori, if you want The Truth, do not go to the official website of the JW's. That just spins their 'truth.' You really should check out the websites Ron mentioned. Maybe you'd learn something about your 'Truth' that you didn't know.

You think you know all there is to know about it, but believe me girl, you don't. I was in it for 33 years and these things are hidden from the rank and file. YOU should do some research. Why don't you? Because they have scared you into not looking. They threaten and scare you that it's just 'apostate lies' and you will be 'drawn away from the Truth.' They don't want you to know because you might leave. Then sales and contributions would go down and they wouldn't have their billions of dollars in property in NYC!

Don't worry Lori, if you decide to research, you will see that the things you read are factual and can be proven. Try it. I dare you.

Gary, thank you so much for your post- it must have been very difficult and upsetting to write.
Much love to you and Morgan- I am so sorry that you are going through such a terrible experience.
It is no fault of yours that Dennis' friends were not allowed to say their final goodbyes.
A religion that won't allow a child to see his friends, while on his death bed?
Cult. Mind controlling cult.

My heart aches for Dennis- the fact he had to hide a perfectly normal and harmless relationship with Morgan in itself shows he must have issues with the restrictions being placed upon him by a controlling cult- rules being placed and enforced by a small group of old men based in America.

Freedom of choice? Joke.
He was a boy being controlled.

Many youths escape from this cult as they get older- thousands of them. He has been denied that choice.

There is a lot of anger, upset, and righteous indignation on this post and that is understandable - a young boy Dennis, has just lost his life.
Perhaps, as a JW this is precisely the type of occasion when the last thing you wish to hear is any condemnation or negativity about your beliefs or faith - it is also a catalyst for a great outpouring of anger from both ex-JW's, non-believers, and other religious factions however......please listen to someone who truly believes that the individuals concerned, especially Dennis, took their stand believing that this was truly what Jehovah wishes of them - and from those individuals standpoint it was very brave
All I can add is, if one really has 'the truth', then nothing in this world can alter that
therefore please take the time to read the book by Raymond Franz - 'Crisis of Conscience'
If after reading it - even with your staunch mindset in place - you can truly go on without any more questions then I personally can say no more to you

Thank you Gary Curry for your heartfelt post. It just reaffirms what those of us who've been there already knew.

Dennis had no choice to live. In his mind there was no choice at all. He either died from his illness not accepting blood, or he would have been considered dead by those closest to him because of his choice to accept a blood transfusion. He would have been shunned by those in the religion, and told he would die the ultimate death at Arrmegedon.

Lori, Listen to what Stacy told you. I was in the religion 28 years myself, and what she says is 'the truth' really.

Just think about what Dennis's decision really involved. Did he really feel he had a choice in this? He wanted to live. And this all happened so quickly he couldn't even really make an informed decision. He didn't get both sides to compare. I know he was sheltered from outside influance, because this is what my father does with the liason commitee to this day, as my father remains in the JW religion.

What a heart wrenching and sad thing.

Another quick thing to think about is when a person begins to study with Jehovahs witnesses, that person is told that they'll most likely receive opposition from their family or friends. This is the first phase of this mind controlling sect. Then when a family member says... 'wait, and think about this religion'... Oh! The Jw's were right and I'm receiving opposition.

It's the same with the blood transfusion. This boys death is glorified in their minds because he died for his faith? What glory is to be found in the death of this young man? He's dead. What did his death accomplish? Nothing... he's dead. We're the Jw's here persecuted for their stand for him? No... They are just receiving messages from those of us who are crying out to them to open their eyes and see 'the real truth'.

Blessings and love...

I am sure poor Dennis secretly hoped the judge would rule against him and save his life. It would have been the only way he could live and not be judged and condemned for it. Poor guy. What a shameful decision of that judge.

I have friends who, as a JW, was secretly glad their baby was given blood so that he would live, even though they felt obligated to deny him blood. Thank goodness for the judge who gave their healthy, intelligent son blood. They are grateful.

I'm sure Dennis & his true friends would have been too.

(((((Dennis' friends)))))

The law doesn't force medical treatment on people. We have the right to control our own bodies. The law also doesn't permit guardians of minor children to withhold life-saving treatment. Those two principles collide when there is evidence that the child has the emotional maturity to weigh in on the decision. I don't believe any 14-year-old has the capacity to understand the gravity of a decision like this - no matter how mature, intellectual and sincere he seems. The standard used by the courts is "best interest of the child." Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis. Here, the judge was probably convinced that the boy couldn't be saved and forcing a transfusion on him would be unnecessarily traumatic based on the depth of his belief that he would be rewarded for refusing the transfusion. The judge might have been right.

But the boy might have lived if he were not subjected to the influence of an authoritarian cult. The reality is that this child did not make and could not have made an informed decision. He was indoctrinated by a belief system that prohibits critical analysis. His "informed decision" began with the premise that God unequivocably prohibits use of blood products and will punish those who violate the prohibition. Dennis was never permitted to question that premise. So the only logical conclusion for him was to refuse the treatment.

The difficulty here is that the U.S. Constitution protects our freedom to practice the religion of our choice. Guardians are allowed to train their children in any religion they choose - no matter how bizarre, unethical, abusive or dangerous. The courts can only step in when the child is in imminent danger of physical harm.

Dennis' death is very sad - a modern tragedy. He was robbed of his life because he didn't have the intellectual capacity to make an informed decision. I wish the judge had understood that and protected him despite the freedom of his aunt to teach him that it is better to die.

Lori, go and tell one of the elders you have been on the internet talking to 'apostates' If you are baptized, you will soon find out you have plenty of attention from them.
And, Lori, you have no doubt accepted whatever answer you have been given if you have received no counsel for asking a question. Just see what happens when you persist with a question that troubles you. If you dont 'leave it to Jehovah' you will find yourself in big trouble. I left so many things with Jehovah, to 'preserve the unity in the congregation' because I didnt want to be a 'murmurer' and yet those issues were huge in my mind...issues that Jehovah could have supplied the answers to, could have put right, but didnt. For the sake of my own integrity I had eventually to search myself and found the Governing Body, my trusted mentors, had lied and covered up so many things, that for the sake of my own sanity, I had to leave, after being a faithful Witness for nearly 40 years, (an elder for some of those) so I DO know what I am talking about Lori.

First of all, I would like to extend sympathies to all those who love Dennis. Regardless of 'religious' beliefs or not. A death of someone near and close is difficult to handle. I am so sorry that his friends didn't get a chance to say farewell. Gary, thank you for your post and please extend sympathies to Morgan.
Unfortunately, it appears that child sacrifice is alive and well within the ranks of the deluded JW's. I am amazed that people like 'cody' actually think that they, and they alone, are the only ones who 'follow the Bible'. If that were so, maybe they should stop and think about who it was, according to the Bible, that gave his blood so that people could live. Think about it. Follow the Bible? I don't think so.
Smoke and mirrors and child sacrifice.
Rest in Peace, Dennis.

Steve, that had to take an enormous toll on your psyche. That you did it and came out stronger is proof that our own personal life maintenance trumps that of any control a deity has (I don't happen to believe in one, but that's irrelevant). Good for you. I hope you continue to find yourself.

I also want to thank Gary for a touching and heartfelt post. I think that the best thing we can do from here on is educate people as to how destructive the JW's really are. Knowing how a cult operates is your best line of defence. Listed below are a few common charactaristics that cults share. You can decide if the JW's fit or not.

Cults are usually personality driven, meaning that someone, or something is actually greater than God. In this case, I would present the governing body as an example. They call themselves God's direct channel, and that he speaks directly through them.

Cults practise isolation. They need followers to be disconected from society, or anywhere critical thinking takes place. Hence the JW mantra, we are no part of this world. Under no circumstances will JW's allow an unbeliever to speak out.

Persecution complex. That has been seen all through this thread. As soon as an opposing view is taken, they cry persecution. They look for persecution as well. Why else would they try so hard to be different?

One last one, but there are many more. Time. A cult needs you for as much time as they can have you. You need indoctrination 24/7. The JW's accomplish this by having 5 meetings every week. 3 of those take preparation time to study for, as you must have the answers memorized verbation from the text. Another get's you up on stage where you are actually graded and marked on your ability to make converts. Then theres the mandatory 10 hours per month of door knocking, plus the constant pressure to pioneer, 60-90 more hours a month. Are they a cult? You decide. Not sure yet? Look up Rick Ross, he's an expert on the subject.

As it also says in Genesis 6:9 "JWs are truly screwed up, they are a cult, beware of these fools and be sure to pepper spray them on the street"

JW are truly a cult

This is why the Government wants to make every decison for us. This is horrible. I'm from the Christian faith and I believe that God gave us gifted doctors with life saving procedures. Oh well, this boy probably had the cure for cancer. Way to go JW's atleast his future wife won't have to suffer through a life of neglect and beatings!

First and foremost I want to applaud Dennis and his family for having moral fiber to stand for their beliefs. In today's world we have far too few people willing to sacrifice for what they believe. That said, I have to say I am appalled that the JW organization is allowed to practice a “religion” that not just condones but encourages murder and suicide. I am a staunch defender of religious freedom in the United States. However the Constitution only guarantee’s these rights so long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. The protection we are guaranteed includes protecting citizens from fraud. Too long have the JW’s been allowed to hide their lies behind the context of religious freedom. A freedom guaranteed by a government and Constitution that they do not believe in. I implore the non-JW friends and family members of Dennis to seek legal action against this organization.

Well, I would hate to think that the jw's are having a peaceful nights sleep tonight. Unfortunately Dennis will never wake up---Dennis has been allowed to die. The closest thing I have ever heard is Dr. Kovorkian who spent time in jail. What this court did is unbelievable in itself.

I must state that I was a Jehovah's Witness and used to think exactly like some of these current witnesses that have posted here.

How self-righteous I used to be and how really unhappy I was as a witness---so glad to not be a part of the cult.

How many Jehovah's Witnesses understand the beginnings and roots of the group you are a part of? Not a bunch I care to venture.

Why does the organization pick and choose which 'rules' to follow?
Did you know wedding rings are of pagan origin? If I were a jw, I would be ashamed to be tied to pagan roots like that...

The list is endless and the typical publisher has no idea what the 'real' truth is.

Does it ever make a Jehovah's Witness wonder why there are literally hundreds of similiar religions and groups all claiming to be the only 'truth'? Contrary to what you may think, other religious groups also think they have the one and only 'truth'. Why God would pick that specific group out of 300 or 600 other ones; especially in light of the various hidden scandals currently surrounding it is a question I don't have the answer to.

Also, if indeed the jw's are the 'truth'; would God condone having members of his organization be abusing sexually children as the www.silentlambs.org website shows? I would hope not! Yet, this is an issue known all the way up to the so-called 'faithful slave' and they are faithfully letting this continue. I would at least take time to do some research. Not to worry---I used to do as a good jw would and rely on the default answer of "new light" coming to be and the other seemingly fool-proof jw comeback is: "Well, the Devil sure must agree with your backtalk". Those blanket statements just don't hold water! They are a catch-all to avoid facing the 'real' issues here!

Here is an article from a newspaper I wanted to post:
------------------------------------------------------
Transfusion row rocks Jehovah's Witnesses

Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent, "Guardian"

Thursday June 15, 2000

Jehovah's Witnesses are braced for a flood of litigation following a vote by church elders in New York which may allow members to accept blood transfusions in critical medical circumstances providing they repent afterwards.

The revelation that transfusions might now be acceptable, apparently decided by the church's world governing body by a vote of eight to four at a secret meeting last month, caused anguish and astonishment to adherents that one of the central tenets of the faith - and the cause of death for thousands of members over the years - was being abandoned.

The decision means that members who accept transfusions may not be automatically expelled and shunned, so long as they repent and seek spiritual guidance.

The church fears that disaffected members whose relatives have died after refusing blood may now seek damages.

The witnesses' British headquarters at Watch Tower House in north London described the decision, which will be conveyed to members at Kingdom halls across the country by letter as "a minor procedural change".

Geoffrey Unwin, an author and former Jehovah's Witness specialising in writing about cults, who broke the story in Britain, said: "Witnesses are in a state of self denial at the moment. They will be shocked that the elders who are supposed to get their messages direct from God should have voted for a change like this.

"Countless thousands whose relatives have been allowed to die needlessly will be angered that this could now be changed by a bunch of old men hiding in a room in New York after supposedly talking to God. They must be terrified of litigation."

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that as life is a gift from God, blood should not be intermingled, taking their text from Acts chapter 15, verse 20, which instructs the faithful to abstain from things "polluted by contact with idols, from fornication, from anything that has been strangled and from blood."

The religion's 130,000 British adherents - among 6m worldwide - are not supposed to accept blood transfusions even if refusal results in their death.

In January Beverley Matthews, 33, of Stockport, Greater Manchester, died after refusing a blood transfusion and last week a teenager, Brent Bond, of Nottingham, accepted a transfusion only seconds before lapsing into unconsciousness after losing five pints of blood in a machete attack. The church said yesterday that he was not a Jehovah's Witness because he had not been baptised in the faith, although his mother who is a member, tried to prevent the operation.

Jehovah's Witnesses are well known for the strictness of their observance. Members do not give presents at Christmas or birthdays, exchange greetings with non-believers or allow their children to take part in games or plays at school. Even use of the internet is frowned upon.

The church insisted yesterday that the New York decision was clarification of existing rules and a simplification of the process of excommunication, though that came as a surprise to some witnesses.

Paul Gillies, the church's spokesman said: "If someone accepts a transfusion in a moment of weakness and then regrets it afterwards we can offer assistance, just as if they had committed adultery. But if they are no longer living by the rules they have excluded themselves.

"Nowadays the movement towards bloodless health care means we have had members who have had open heart surgery and liver transplants without using blood."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002

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Nothing can be done now for Dennis as this organization permitted his death unnecessarily which is nothing less than a tragedy.

For the future and so this type of thing won't continue, please at the minimum try to have an open mind. I do not blame the people actually in the jw organization and I was one for the first 29 years of my life. I even think sometimes the governing body themselves have become a victim to continuing on a cause 'at any expense' including in this case the death of a 14 year old.

If people here do nothing else, I encourage you to visit www.commentarypress.com or even amazon.com to find Mr. Ray Franz' book "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom."

Given that he is the only person who actually knows what makes the governing body come up with some of these decisions (since he and his uncle Fred Franz were part of the governing body for the longest time), I think it is worth considering.

Thanks for listening.

Ron

If we all believe in God and Heaven then why wouldn't we let him die in peace? Choice or no choice if God takes him then he is better off in heaven. Isn't that we all believe, unless we're atheist? I am NOT a JW....I think they are more cult-like than religion but who cares why he did it. My grandfather refused treatment with renal cancer...so do many others. Refusing treatment isn't crazy...it is a choice. I agree the reason behind this choice is ...a little weird, but come on - he refused treatment and is now in heaven. I do have a question though....Do the JW's believe in God but just interpret his words...in an odd fashion? If they do is God not forgiving? Would he not forgive an error of blood? No one knows if they are right are wrong (I think they are wrong) but they can’t be sure they are right….until they die.

Another thing - We are in America and we all have a choice. Don't try to outlaw the JW's because next they'll outlaw the Catholic's or Baptists. We can’t outlaw the minority of any group because we never know when we’ll be the minority. The reason the Quakers came over is for religious freedom don't get the law involved because tomorrow they'll make something you want (religion, abortion, gun right, etc) illegal. Accept the weird ones in the world because we are all weird to someone else. Respect the freedom we all have, even if they are crazy, they have a right to freedom of choice

The judge made the right choice by not interfering because as American's we don't want a judge to tell us how to live, or die. In China they could only have 1 kid... if we let the judge tell the kid he had to live then the judge can also tell us how many kids to have, who to marry, and more. Freedom doesn't mean we agree, it means we have a choice...that means we even have the CHOICE to be stupid, if we so desire.

Me,

Are you insane? It's a choice if you are an ADULT. Your grandfather was obviously old enough to make that choice.

A CHILD who is brainwashed by a cult should not have his life taken away by a judge.

I GUAR-AN-DAMN-TEE you Dennis secretly hoped the judge would rule against him & force a transfusion so he could live.

Guarantee it.

He was 14, legally a child, and therefore should not have been allowed to make that decision. Even if his God does not allow blood tansfusions, then I'm sure he would be forgiven if made to by the courts. He should have been allowed to reach adulthood before being allowed to make life decisions. It's such a waste.

Finally the courts got one right. I'm proud of this young man for standing up for his beliefs and not letting someone else decide his treatment for him.

Interesting how society thinks. It's ok for someone to go off to war, put their lives on the line for someone else, and they are considered a hero for making the ultimate sacrifice. Do the same thing for God and suddenly you are a nut in a cult. I wonder which is the more brainwashed ...

It's ok for someone to go off to war if they are an ADULT, not a CHILD..figure it out!!

In response to Alex..you need some clarifications..we are not mandated to preach, pioneering is all done willingly..so to your hearts desire. Also, we have our weekly meetings to fortify us because for every step forward we take in society, daily everyday trials takes us 2 steps back. On sunday we have a public talk followed by the Watchtower study, Tuesdays we have our ministry school, teaching us all we need to know about preaching, followed by the service meeting..that encourages us about the worldwide activity. And thursdays we have our book study arrangement, right now we are covering the book of Revelation. I know nothing we say will help in your mind set already, but hopefully one day you will understand it all, too bad your independant thinking made you go astray. I have not found any other religion that has soundness based on the bible, as far as the holidays...look it up in the encyclopedias..the originations will surprise you..it did me! Now we get together more then anything, it doesn't have to be only 2 times a year, birthday and christmas!

Cal..what you just stated are all of the tenets of a cult..congratulations, you are in one. Finally one of you has admitted it.

JW's 'escape' YOUR CULT!

Lori you keep saying in your post "this horrible earth?"

If in your religion you believe it's so horrible here on earth NOW I know why you refuse medical treatment to end your time here! Thank for the insight on the JW's faith.

I work with several members of the JW's. I am constantly bombarded with their views. The sad ending to this episode confirms it for me. CULT!

The right..you need to look into your bible, this horrible earth here is depicted as "society" mankind in general, just like Noahs Day,
Jason, you can call us a cult.. that won't change all the facts.

As an ex-JW (and so much more enlightened for it!) I would like to direct this comments to Dennis' family and friends: I am sorry to hear of Dennis' passing. I truly am. I know that whether you're a JW or not, if you were a friend, you'll no doubt miss him.

Judges, Dennis' family members, Dennis' friends, JWs and non-JWs: PLEASE TAKE NOTE - let us all remember that Dennis didn't necessarily have to die. We (as a society) should have rallied round and done the right thing by him, and indeed, by all other children, because that is what he was - a child. Let's make sure that we all take the necessary steps so that this doesn't happen again.

Personally, I am all for freedom of choice - but NOT when you are a CHILD! Would Dennis' Aunt have let him drive a car? Probably not. Why? Because he was a child. Would he have been allowed to drink alcohol? No. Why? Because he was a child. Would he have been allowed to fight for his country? No. Why? Besides the JWs not allowing that, it was also because he was a child. Would he have been allowed to end his life regardless of the fact that he may have been saved? YES!! WHY?????
Dennis - RIP.

Cal, Yes you are mandated to preach and you know it. Quit lying to the worldly people. Stop preaching and see what happens, Cal. Records are kept on your activity. Your 'Publisher Record Card' follows you to every congregation you go to so they know how "spiritual" you are based on how many hours you put it.

You are TOLD meetings are to fortify you. They are, in reality, to continue the brainwashing. There's no other reason to coop up the same people 3 times a week for several hours repeating the same crap year after year. It's to keep you 'in' and brainwashed into thinking this is what's best for you. Read 1984 Cal.

Cal, you are the one who needs to look up the origins of your religion. Have you seen the pics of Bethel Christmas? Do you know who stopped Christmas and why? Do you know who stopped blood transfusions & why? No, you don't. You know what they tell you now. You don't know the truth about what happened back then because they won't allow you to look it up and you obey them like a sheep led to the slaughter.

Hey all you exJW's: notice how Cal used the word "encourage" .... gag! Remember that word being used ALL THE TIME?? It means "this is what you have to do" put in a nicer sounding way..."we're 'encouraging' you". "Fortify", too....fortify you for what? The persecution the religion loves to bring on itself so that they can then 'prove' to the rank and file (that's you, Cal) that you have 'The Truth.'

LOL...studying the Revelation Book AGAIN, huh, Cal? And you can't have an old one, right? Or else you have to make all the li'l changes in it that the new one has because 'the light has gotten brighter', right? (ie; the governing body changed their minds on a few things that weren't working out ... their timeline is rapidly breaking down!)

Hope you can keep up with the 'light' Cal. And be sure to be OBEDIENT to the old farts above all else! Or you might 'die at armaggedon.'

Child abuse in its most clever, cunning form.

Satan is alive and well in the JW organization. I am very familiar with their beliefs, and yes folks, it is indeed Satan's organization. The Bible is very clear about false prophets and of people who will come "in my name" but that what they say will not come true. JW's continuously prophesi the 'end of times' and have failed many times (1914,1975 etc). They deny the Sacrament, and closed the gates to heaven to all but 'the chosen', and they excite members with the gift of 'paradise earth' (the same gift Satan tempted Christ with). The leaders will not stand up for what the preach by making everything they publish and print as being 'taught directly by ministering angels' and not by any man, so you will never know truely WHO is giving such bad advice. They even believe they were once infiltrated by Satan himself and that is why the false prophesy, so who is in charge now? You'll never know because they hide under the 'idology' veil to protect the true authors.

Their woeful misinterpretation of the Bible has now cost the life of an innocent.

Yes, they are a cult based on the practice of "Ideological Totalism" (look it up). They also ingrain in the members that the more they are persecuted for their beliefs, the more 'right' they are. Stupid logic. Every JW meeting starts with a story of persecution. What is healthy about this? They prey on weak, ignorant people for converts by offering fellowship.

All things are gifts from God, including technology and science, and the medicine that could have saved this boy. Man has dominion of all things on Earth, including the knowledge to save lives.

It's sad that the boy died. Yet, I believe he died with great pride. It's way better than living with shame is his mind. The most important thing for a 14-year-old with severe medical condition is his faith. I appreciate the judge to make such decision.

Nice belief system, let a CHILD die..I can call you a cult because you are one.. cult defined = A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader or leaders.

Everyone seems to be ignoring why God said donot eat blood.
When the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, God told Moses in his last plague on Egypt, to tell Pharoah that if he did not let His people go,he would kill the firat born of them all. In order for the Israelites to be saved they were told to slaughter a perfect lamb, and sprinkle the blood of it over their door posts. Then the avenging angels would pass over thier home and the would be saved. That is what really happened and the first born of the Egyptians all died.
That was a foreshadowing of the blood of the lamb Jesus Christ that would be the salvation of all mankind if they accepted the sacrifice of his blood as their salvation. So now you can see why God Jehovah, views blood as so sacred. Using blood for the saving of our temorary life now, shows a lack of faith in Jehovahs promise and is a trampeling on the Ransom sacrifice of Christ's Blood. Those are the facts and God bless Dennis for his courage in abstaining from blood transfusions. Shame on all of you who wanted him to reject the value of Christs blood, and especially all of you who know these facts and ignor them in this blog.

Any religion that has to keep such close watch and control over its members is definately a house built on sand.

Excellent example of faith in a young person.

Nice to see someone taking a stand for something they feel is right. So many 14 year olds out there making truly damaging choices for themselves every day. Where are all the blogs and comments about them belonging to the cult of popular opinion?

I'm glad one had the fortitude to stand up to the people around him and say 'this is my life, my choice, and I will not let you interfere with my conscience.'

Jonathan..unfortunately he did not have a choice in the matter. He was being hovered over by JWs the whole time. Free will lost out in this one . You make a statement about truly damaging choices, can't think of one more damaging than this one, although it ultimately wasn't his choice now was it?

No I am not insane…..Rather I see this for what it is. A LEGAL question not a religion question. We can’t stop the JW’s just like we couldn’t stop the Hale Bop Comet people who drank kool-aid and wore Nike’s to die. Freedom of religion is a fundamental American right. We won’t get rid of it any time soon. Remember, I am not a JW and don’t know much about them …other than to not answer the door and a boy in school smelled of BO when I was a kid because he couldn’t wear deodorant. Odd rules.

If the courts can force you to give your child “whatever” treatment then why can't they force you to keep your unborn child alive? Abortion is a choice (which I think has valid uses at times) but it is no different...your child, YOUR choice. This kid didn't really make his own choice - is parents made it for him because is thier kid. Ask any parent how they feel if a judge say’s they have to – let’s just say for example - keep their kids from getting fat or maybe not watch too much TV because both of those things are bad for