This public smoking ban should never have been allowed. It is another gestapo law in the state of Washington. It is a law of numbers that was passed by shear numbers. Most voters that voted to pass this law were never even really affected by the smokers. They just went along with (what seemed) the majority of the people without any real regard as to the outcome.

It is a law passed by the "Do Gooders" that says "hey, my rights are better than yours and you can't do anything about it." Now we have long established businesses around the state that are closing their doors or just barely getting by. Where are all of you now. There is no smoking in all of those bars, so why aren't you all going out and supporting all of these places that you have stabbed in the ribs? Where is your business that you promised when you made your vote that way?

I am a non-smoker and this has had me very angered and troubled ever since I first saw the petitioners standing in front of Wal-Mart. Smokers have a right to go to places and be comfortable in their environment without the fear of reprisal from people that don't even go in there. Yet you have al voted to take that away from them. That is unconstitutional. That is un-American. That is just palin wrong. We all have choices of where to be.

I can go along with no smoking in a lot of places, but not in the bars. That is about as bright an idea as iminent domain. You took away peoples business for your own selfish ends.

First off, it's eminent domain, not iminent domain. Second, the law is not unconstitutional just because you don't like it, nor is it un-American. Roughly 80 percent of Washingtonians do not smoke. The majority voted (it passed in every county) in a democratic election to ban smoking in bars, restaurants, bingo halls and bowling alleys. It was already banned in all other work enviroments and public places - has been for years.

We have plenty of laws that irritate folks: speed limits, burning bans and noise abatement. Your right to do something ends when it negectively impacts others. Clearly, second-hand smoke falls into that category. We have protected office workers for years from their smoking co-workers. Only now are we protecting bar and restaurant workers. The argument that they could work somewhere else is bogus. Generally, these folks aren't working there for the high pay - it's because unskilled jobs are scarce and people have had to sacrifice their health to pay the rent.

The bottom line is that you can smoke all you want, although it was illegal in Washington at one time, in the 1880's. However, your right to do so no longer trumps my right to sit and enjoy my beer. Before, I would have to leave if someone started smoking - I'm allergic to tobacco smoke. Now, I can stay while you have to go outside for a brief moment to smoke. This isn't the apocalypse. Get over it.

Also, most restaurants and bars fail for a variety of reasons - mostly for hard economic reasons having nothing to do with smoking (remember 80% of us don't do it). In California, the statistics don't support the argument that smoking bans kill off restaurants. In Washington, the average life of a bar or restaurant can be measured in months. It's a tough business and few make it. I-901 hasn't changed that dynamic.

Thanks for correcting my spelling. 80% may pass a vote. But that still does not delete the rights of the other 20% of the population. A majority always rules. I never said that smoking has to be allowed in the work place or restaurants or any place else. It should be a choice for bars and tobacco and cigar shops. And for your information. I have been working in and around bars on both sides of the state for many years, and roughly 90% of the bar employees are smokers.

Also, I have been an officer in private clubs. They are really taking it hard. All of those members pay annual dues and THEY own the place. Private clubs are not open to the public, yet they have to obey these laws as if they were. Most of the damage to bars and private clubs would come from drunk driving laws. That is their lack of business and their demise, and the non smokers still are not showing up supporting them with their business.

Private clubs have a specific exemption from the smoking ban. It's the same statutory exemption from before I-901, when the Elks, Eagles and other private clubs were dying out from lack of interest (or from lung cancer).

What's killing the local bar - Starbucks! People no longer gather and socialize at the local pub. They hang out in coffee houses that have free WI-FI. Hanging out in a bar, absent a decent band, is depressing - mostly due to the alcoholism. Getting piss drunk and blowing the rent on pull tabs has its appeal, but it's a questionable basis for a business plan. However, overpriced coffee and playing Norah Jones non-stop, that's a winner. Just ask Howard Schultz.

I worked in restaurants for years and 9 out of 10 of us were not smokers. The 90% figure is crap; anecdotal at best. Bar work paid better but my asthma foreclosed that option. Now, it's not an issue.

I'm perplexed by your reference to drunk driving laws. I imagine most of us would assume that drunk driving is a bad thing and shouldn't be legal regardless of the impact on bar business.

Finally, there is no "right" to smoke. Similarly, there is no "right" to run naked through the streets, drive your car drunk, scream profanity during a church service, nor wipe yourself with excrement and call yourself a turd. Just because a person can, and might like it, does not make it a "right." Yet, these are all things you can do in the privacy of your own home. Knock yourself out.

If you asked most smokers whether they would want their children to smoke, most all would acknowledge that smoking is not such a great idea. Why do folks feel the need to equate it with real "rights" like free speech, exercise of religion, or my personal favorite, the right not to have a soldier, in the time of peace, quartered in my house without my permission. Gotta love the Third Amendment.

This issue is a sticky one, but it goes to show the hypocrisy if this state. Washington supposedly prides itself in being a 'liberal' state where people have choices. You have the choice to be gay, speak any language, go to any religious institution, wear whatever clothes you choose.

The problem here is that the basic right of choice has been taken away from the business owner. The owner should be able to make the choice to serve smokers, and the non-smokers should have the choice to not patronize that establishment, plain in simple.

To make it worse, smokers pay a larger percentage of taxes under the pretext that they are responsible for higher healthcare costs. What about obesity, alcohol and drug abuse? How much to these contribute to healthcare costs that isn't accounted for?

This state needs to pull its collective head out, quit whining about stuff, and maybe do the right thing for once.

Nobody - even non-smokers wants to see children get started in the filthy habit of smoking. And for your info M. Shaw, you are totally misinformed. I don't know what private clubs you go to, but these laws also apply to them. Granted, there are a few private clubs that can allow smoking solely due to the fact that all of their employees are volunteers. That is the only way they can do that. And also, there is a big difference between restaurant cocktail lounges and regular old bars and taverns.

I remember back in the seventies a law was passed to ban all cigarette commercials on tv due to the fact that it caused people to light up via the power of suggestion. Yet I sat here last night and watched a Bud commercial that plainly stated that baseball season cannot start without the first crack of the beer bottle. Yet everyone walks around bitching about our children having drinking and drug problems. Power of suggestion???

It's okay to be anything you want - just don't smoke. 86% of Americans believe in the Lord, yet every day, someone is getting Christ shut out of schools, public buildings, our pledge of allegiance, or some other part of our lives. They are even trying to take Christmas away from us. So what makes you think that just because you and I are in that 80% of the public that you have the right to take someone elses rights and privileges away???

GIVE THE POWER OF CHOICE BACK TO THE BUSINESS OWNERS!!!

I do not agree with the smoking ban, the way originally written smoking in places where minors are not allowed would be ok. When it was added that any place of employment must be designated as non-smoking it killed the original idea of the bill(to protect our children). The problem now is that because of this rule businesses are loosing money. But on the other side of the coin there are businesses that are "bucking" by not following the law, a lot of these businesses are not getting "caught", and the businesses that are following the law are being punished more that thoses that are not following the law.
This bill should have never been passed, in places like bars and lounges smoking is expected, the people that work in these businesses know this and are normally smokers themselves.
I will be a non-smoker soon, I have my quit date set, and it has nothing to do with the ban. Knowing this I still do not think that this was well thought out, too many changes to the original bill was made and our economy will and is suffering for it.

Whether a law hurts or limits a business's operations - is that really the litmus test we should follow? What about child-labor laws; pollution prohibitions; workplace safety, or public health requirements?

If I own a restaurant that is a fire trap where I sell madcow hamburgers cooked by underaged illegal immigrants who work for substandard wages, shouldn't I be allowed to do so? My customers could choose to go somewhere else and my employees could try to find other work. And if I want to sell alcohol after 2 a.m. to visibly drunk customers I should be allowed to do so because I might make less money otherwise. Also, the next natural disaster, I should be able to price gouge because otherwise my profits might suffer.

Forcing manufacturers to build toys that don't maim kids, that's just unamerican. "The basic right of choice" of a business owner has been repeatedly mentioned in this blog as if it were somehow devine. It's not. We regulate businesses concerning their ability to discriminate racially and their ability to mistreat their workers. China does little of either - should we aspire to that?

Most businesses have been required to be smoke free for years. Nobody complained about the poor theater owner or the poor shopowner whose customers where nolonger able to smoke within their walls. The only reason bars and restaurants were exempt originally is because they had better lobbyists.

Bottom line is that the bottom line is not sacrosanct. The clear majority of voters in this state favor the law just like they favor workplace safety and minimum wage requirements. Perhaps these positions are not pro-business, but they are pro-people. That a few choose to violate the law is not surprising. I don't like most speed limits, but I'm not crying over their existance and I pay my tickets.

We won, you lost; get over it.

Oh by the way, I DON'T SMOKE!!!!! I hate smoke in my face, too. But that doesn't give me the right to tell someone else what to do. You seem to have missed that point. I quit 3 years ago. I also quit drinking about then also. But, I do not speed. I drive the speed limit everywhere I go. You must be one of those people that is trying to shove your front bumper up my tail pipe all the time. One of the drivers I have a lot of colorful names for. If you are speeding around and getting tickets to pay, then obviously you have no regard for the law. So why would it bother YOU if bar owners are smoking in THEIR place of business that THEY OWN after bigotted jerks like you told them they can't?

You keep whining about it bothering your health. Go someplace else. Nobody is forcing you to stay there and breath it.

Oh, And another thing. The right of choice is divine. GOD gave everyone the right to choose. It's called free will. And it is WRONG to take that away from another human being. That is all I have to say now. Thank you for opining (A Bill O'Reily word) with me. It may start others thinking about their own feelings. God bless all.

NON SMOKER

M. Shaw, are you suggesting that if my kids want to go out for an evening of bowling, we should look elsewhere for entertainment,since bowling alleys are full of second hand smoke?

M. Shaw, using your logic, I have a suggestion, "Go someplace else. Nobody is forcing you to stay"

I agree with Shaw's points. It seems like there are a lot of sore losers out there. The bottom line is that it was put up for a vote, and the voters spoke.

Nobody is taking one's right to smoke away...do it in the privacy of your own home or outside. As for me, I don't appreciate having it forced on me by the small minority of smokers out there every time I decided to step out of my door. Actually, it has made me go out to bars and restuarants more since. Now I don't come home smelling like %$&, having to immediately wash my hair and clothes to get someone else's choices washed off of me.

I;m a former smoker after 35 years but still believe that this law shold not have been passed. I have frickin emphyzema. Self inflicted, i know. I have a lot more to complain about than you all. It's about like some body taking awy your right to eat a hambuger at mc donalds. Same dam thing and you know it. Don't try to argue that there is no comparison there. It is exactly the same. There are paople out there that are alergic to hamburgers.

Don't you guys have anything better to do than sit and bash eachother and argue? Yeah so this law took away smokers' right to smoke where they wanted and it took away the bar owners' right to decide if they wanted to have a "smoking section" but the fact of the matter is that the law was passed and no amount of griping is going to change that. I am a smoker and I hate the law, but hey, the majority voted right? I think that all of us smokers (which are abundant, look into other people's cars next time you're on the freeway and count how many are smoking) were too busy enjoying our last moments of freedom to smoke where we wanted that we "forgot" to vote. OOPS. Get over it. Honestly I don't think this is going to last very long anyways, at least the 25 foot rule. That puts people in the middle of the street in Pioneer Square. I bet that's going over well. And what are the court systems going to do when they have 8000 smoking violations that people are trying to fight? Are the cops really writing tickets for this? The local politicians act like our judicial system isn't backed up enough with all the murders and rape and everything else that they have to throw one more law in there to make things worse. I think we should stop complaining about our "rights as smokers" and look at the bigger picture. How many of you have had your lifestyle seriously affected by this law, and if it has been did you ever think that maybe there were other things to do than sit at the bar? I know my smoking habits haven't been changed at all by this law. And while it was nice to be able to have a cigarette with my cocktail, I can still do that at home if I so desire. I have heard so much whining from so many people about this law I feel like I'm in a room with a hundred 5 year old children that were just told they can't go to the zoo. Aren't we supposed to be adults here?

The issues of percentages of non-smokers vs smokers, and of private clubs vs public bars are not the point. The real issue is that many people are dying for the sake of the pleasure of a few. If in fact, the smoking ban was repealed it would again close a large number of restaurants, lounges, etc. to the majority of the consumer base.

If you will forgive a bit of sarcasm, how about simply banning restaurants, bars and lounges and allow people to prepare their food and consume their liquor in the privacy of their own homes where living in the presence of carcinogenic substances is a preferred way of life.

Of all the people I have spoken to, the element of health or death or financial interests has never - never - been the issue. Rather it is the issue of not wanting to be told what to do.

Eating a hamburger at McDonalds is not an accurate analogy to the dangers of second hand smoke. When I eat a hamburger the calories and the fat don't magically float across the room to skinny person eating their salad (oh, if only that were true). Rather, second hand smoke is similar to swimming in a pool after someone urinates in it - their act doesn't just impact them; it impacts everybody in the pool.

We wouldn't need this smoking ban if people were more polite and respectful of each other. Let's assume smoking is not a health hazard, just smelly. Why is it OK to bother people trying to enjoy their food or drink with your cigarette smoke, when you can go outside and bother no one? The rejoinder that "if people don't like the smoke they can leave" ignores the fact that the people not being disgusting must accomodate the ones who are. Why should the non-smoker have to leave - they're not bothering any one. Why do folks get so exercised about smoking when they certainly wouldn't defend the right of an individual to belch continually or pick their nose while others try to eat.

Regarding the post about whether we have any thing better to do than argue and "bash" each other, well, this is a blog. It's kind of the point to argue and bluster. It gives us an outlet to pontificate to other folks whose spouses are also tired of listening to them espouse their bombast. Also, it's cheaper than therapy.

About the this blogging outlet, M Shaw.... AMEN! Debate can be very healthy for the soul. And sorry about the biggoted jerk part. I was just letting off some steam and I normally don't take to name calling.

I think the wole world would be better if everyone would quit smoking. 4 out of 5 of my children smoke and I could just wring their necks. I tried to tell them all of the bad things about it. My wife and I were just poor examples. I think I have to agree with Liz - I think a much larger percentage of the populas smoke than the reported 20%. Judging from looking all around us, I would say 30 to 40 percent would be more accurarate if one looks at the amount of teen smokers, too.

Excue my spelling today. I was trying to watch a movie while typing.

Excuse....LOL

If the law breakers want to do so for their custoners, so be it for them to suffer the consequences whenever the law enforcers decide to do what the law requires. The smokers don't realize they will be breaking the law also when found smoking in this public place and could be penalized as well. When smokers realize these circumstances they will seek other places that circum to the law that is so disliked by a minority.

The law is the law. They should be fined and then if they still don't follow the law, thrown in jail.

That's it. Stuff more cases in the already stuffed courts and jails. THAT'S the answer. Maybe we should instill a new tax to build a new "smokers jail".

My God let's persecute these citizens for being cigarette smokers. They must be the lowest form of life on planet earth. They don't need or have any rights. Only non-smokers have any rights.

It was proven that prohibition was an uncostitutional law back in the 30's. This is no different. All of you non-smokers are NOT the only people with rights. When smokers say something about their rights, the non smokers say it isn't about their rights, while crying out that they have a right to breath clean air. Talk about two faced.

Have fun

Just like that new law in California. If I were still a smoker and lived there, I would certainly gather all the smokers I could muster and have everyone stand in the middle of town and all light up at once while holding our hands up to let the city know they are number one. If you know what I mean.

You should give the right to the business owners, they know what kind of business decision they're making. If they want to smoke in there then smoke in there, if not then don't. There are pros and cons to both situation and decision.

This law was about property rights nothing more. Telling owners what they can do with there own property is just plain wrong. There were plenty of non smoking places before the smoking ban. Now the only one it is hurting is the bar and restuarant owners as well as hurt the economy for business's in the state of washington. Whats funny I think is now they all flock to the indian reservations and casino's so they can smoke =) Way to go Indians! Very smart on their behalf and completely stupid on ours, way to go voters! NOT!

ATTN: BAR OWNER IN OLYMPIA, its about time a Bar Owner stood up for thier property rights. I think they all should follow your lead. As for court who cares we'll all go with ya :)
Cheers to you!

Yes I am a smoker! Yes I feel this law is stupid. Do I believe the original law was stupid? No! I don't smoke around kids. I feel that if there is an enviroment where kids are allowed then yest smoking should be banned but not everywhere. My mom was a bar owner for 15 years and the reason she sold her bar is because she new that when this law passed that her business would suck. 90% of her customers smoked. Even people I know that don't smoke, smoke when they drink. Its a social thing for those people. Should a bar owner have the right to choose if he wants smoking in his bar? Yes! Should we be able to smoke when kids are in an area such as a bowling alley? Not really. The ones I go to you can only smoke in the bar not on the lanes.

I agree though the voters have pushed me to the Indian reservations. I now go play cards, bingo and go dancing out at Mukelshoot because I know I can smoke. If I could go to a local bar and enjoy music and have a smoke I would or go to big brothers bingo I would but the Voters of Washington said otherwise.

To a reformed smoker there is a simple solution to the smoking in bars or other public places. If you are among the 80% that don't smoke do not shop in or frequent these establishments then economics will make the change. These are a business that will cater to the wishes of the majority of their patrons.
As far as I am concerned you do not have a RIGHT to shop in any store nor have the RIGHT to stop at any pub for a drink if they are allowing actions you disagree with. But you certainly have the RIGHT not to spend your money in them. The State has stepped way over the line, but we have to take the blame for letting them do that!

I wish the same law was in effect at tribal casinos, where I love to play slots. Every time I emerge I feel ill from all the second-hand smoke and it takes a week to air the stink out of my jacket. I limit my exposure to only a couple days a month.
How would a smoker feel if a tobacco-chewer spit on them? Why then, should they expect someone else to get a lung full of their smoke.
I don't frequent bars and lounges, but perhaps the state legislature could try a comprimise to satisfy bar owners and their smoking patrons.
Why not grant exemptions to bar owners who provide full medical coverage to their employees and regular customers.
This would take thousands of people off Washington's taxpayer-supported health programs.
Smokers are more likely to suffer a greater share of debilitating illnesses and this would shift the burden of caring for them to those who create the unhealthy environment.

Okay folks, we get it. Smoking is bad, it's costly, it makes your hair smell and also makes for an interesting breath. But quite frankly you folks that are righteous non-smokers are extremely rude. I have been with friends that were smokers. They were standing away from other folks not to offend. Some non-smokers deliberately walked in their space and made rude and unkind remarks. What makes a non-smoker so pious?

Our daughter use to work as a food server in a well known restaurant during school. She always chose to work in the smoking section because smokers are more generous. Non-smokers for the most part left less than a 10% tip.

My point is, there are worse social faux pas than smoking. I would like to see a little more respect among groups, and that does include the non-smoking/smoking groups. Can't we just get along?

I am a non-smoker although for the first 18 years of my life I was a second-hand smoker being that both of my parents smoked like chimneys. My Mom quit the easy way about 15 years ago, my Dad quit the hard way, he died from lung cancer that metastisized to his brain. Not a pretty way to go...all that being said, I'd love to see this law amended such that bars and restaraunts can apply for exemption status. I think that would eventually bring about a better mix of smoking/non-smoking establishments so that folks who work in that industry would have more opportunites to choose between the two types of establishment.

This is totally about property rights. Since when our government cares about our health? This law was backed by a lot of money from insurance companies and such, which can care less about public health. If those rich organizations really cared about our health, they could've put all those campaign and advertisement millions towards better affordable health care.
Now, for all the people who voted for this nazi law: Why aren't you at the clubs everyday? Not health clubs, but the clubs and bars that you were sooooo discriminated to be a part of? Did you really want to be a part of it? Most clubs and bars in the world were created for smoking, drinking, and doing other unhealthy stuff. It is the attribute of a culture. You just can't go to someones house and set new rules. It's simple as that. Don't take over someone else's culture, create your own. Wanna have a smoke free bar, open one.
And don't bring children into this, all these places are for 21 and older. I hope bar owners can get together to challenge this law soon. Especially since many have patios and decks. If not then what's next? Ban on talking?

tolerance is whats needed in this case, why would you care if someone in a bar smokes? why do you care at all about the person who smokes? last I checked buying a pack of cigg's is still leagle. but try an smoke one you can be fined! how stupid is that? think about if we passed a law that said all people must be healthy and fit, do you think all or any would comply? or all girls must fit a size three and if you cant your forced to diet untill you can. leave people alone and worry about your own self.

I live next to a bowling alley with casino attached. When the smoking ban went into effect, their business dropped significantly. I do not mind the ban that much, the bowling alley has provided nice smoking areas outside, but I do mind all the experts that predicted the smoking ban would increase business. What a joke.

i am a smoker and away ben curteuse of not smokers.
and i feel that there was plenty of place that a non someker could go befor this uselss law com to be.
i usto go to one place in kent that was always busy and now it looks like thy do not have much busness now the parking lot looks deserted now

as far as bars go it illgale for kids to go in ther now so how can so call sencond hand smoke bother them i think it a wrong thing to do for small busnness.

People, look at California, they seem to do ok with a smoking ban. New York also has a smoking ban. Only 19% of the population in Washington State smokes. So why does the minority think they should get to make the rules. The smoking ban was pretty much the most democratic thing that has happened to this state since the I-695 tab vote back in 1999. The majority of the population decided that they were tired of breathing second hand smoke.

As for the previous post, Cindy, you pretty much tipify my argument for the smoking ban. Your ignorance shows through in your broken English and mispellings.

I joined a bowling league after the ban went into place because then my clothes and hair wouldn't smell after I bowled and I wouldn't have a headache and hack the next day because of someone else's addiction.

Get over it, the ban is here to stay.

Shame on you Jason. I'm sure your mother taught you to be respectful to all people and that includes those who are keyboard impaired. I'm not sure what typifies the purpose of the smoking ban but I don't think it has anything to do with broken english and bad typing. It occurs to me that you must think that all people who are opposed to the smoking ban are ignorant. That is not true. Lacking the will power to stop smoking maybe, but not ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such nasty remarks.

Hey nanna,
Don't waste your time keyboarding with the likes of Jason Brown. His attitude shows just who the real idiot is. He doesn't even know if Cindy is an english SPEAKING person. He just automatically assumes she's stupid. He sounds like any other far left puke. Jason, you pretty much tipify that.

As for this stupid law, just try making a law like this towards the black community or any other minority and see what happens then. Smokers are the most persecuted, highest taxed minority alive, and not ONE of your elected officials out there cares.

And just who the hell comes up with these stupid percentage figures anyway? I dare all of you to look around you while driving down any road in this state and see just how may people are smoking. It's a darn site more than 20%.

The casinos - I have to agree that they are bad with smoke. All the money the rake in off of all those smokers, (must be 90% of the gamblers) and they can't spend some money for some decent vetillation systems. It chokes me half to death after being in there for very long, too. I have empheyzema after smoking for 35 years. Or should I blame it on second hand smoke.

All of these righteous non smokers tell all of you that you lost - get over it. Well to all of you non smokers - you won - get in those bars and start drinking and supporting them thar bar owners and get over it!

i would like to comment on the one ho said get over it well in that point a view them we should make every body that allergic to anything happy and make rules for them also you think i don't like people telling me what i can and cant do this was supposed to be a free country but it not you see i am allergic to mowed grass it can really knock me off my feet should i go and have every on stop mowing there lawns? you see freedom of choice has Ben taken away from the smoker you know like we did the blacks you see WI the smokers are upset we tried to dictate to certain people once and it did not work lets learn from are miss takes and not do it again thank you

I am a smoker. I am all for the smoking ban in washington bars. The only reason I feel this way is because it was put to vote, and the majority of the vote agreed that smoking in bars should not be legal.
Citizens of this state should be thankfull for the oportunity to vote on topics such as this.
After all, the government could have made its own rules and we all know what would come of that.
I say so be it. It could be worse.

Smoking is an endangered lifestyle.
But we do contribute millions in taxes to the state by smoking. It is a smelly sweet way of contributing to our states funds. After we all quit smoking I am sure we will be taxed on something else.. Its really all a money game.

I am a smoker, and I subscribe to the point of view on this ban from the businesses' standpoint.

Yes, other states (California being one mentioned multiple times) have smoking bans. However, those states were smart in drafting the law that citizens voted on in that CONDITIONS were written in to their bill/law that permitted businesses to provide things such as COVERED SHELTER OUTSIDE or SEGREGATED/DESIGNATED OUTDOOR SMOKING areas that would be property of the establishment. This bill gave the business owner NO choice. Period.

The 25 foot rule is practically impossible to enforce for urban bars and lounges. And now, we're looking at possibly amending the law here to accomodate shut-ins (assisted living citizens) and to prevent accidents of those persons WHO LIVE AT THESE ESTABLISHMENTS caused by the rigidity of the 25 foot rule.

It won't be long, I predict, before other amendments are written in (private clubs, for instance). Private clubs - great, just like the dry/wet counties of Texas, where in the dry counties one pays a membership fee to be allowed in to a bar and can drink all they like, instead of driving across the county line to drink at another bar. Will Washington become a state of private/public establishments for adults who choose or not to smoke? I can see it happenening within the next 2 years.

And to the person who cried about playing slots in smoky tribal casinos - there was a bill put to voters of this state a year or so ago asking for permission for slots to be made legal in all establishments. That one, too, was shot down by the voters.

First off - smoking is NOT allowed in private clubs due to the fact that they are places of employment to the bartenders and waitresses and office workers. IF there is a private club in your area that is allowing smoking, then they are either breaking the law or all of their employees are VOLUNTEERS.

And, the hell with anything California does. THIS IS WASHINGTON. We don't live down there. We don't live by their rules. That is like doing everything your neighbor does. What? Keeping up with the Jones'?

Hey Joe,
Nice language!!! You made some really great points. I too am against this moking ban. But your language only shows a lack of intelligence. Too bad. If you were smarter and used more apropriate language, you would sound almost like a real politician. Maybe your mother never taught you that debate should have some decency and RESPECT.

Back At Ya Sweetheart

I have worked as a bartend, cashier cage, blackjack dealer, waitress and have ran the lanes here in South Bend. This is all in one building and I feel that this law is not gonna help. Although I haven't worked there for over a year now, I still like the owners and other that work there. Some of them are smoker; just like me, and this law is only hurting the place.
For anyone who's ever been in a card room, you now that it's not easy to stop the game so a few people can go outside to smoke. Or for the bar, for the bartender to head outside for a smoke when the bar is full.
For people who don't want to to around the smokers, they can always go somewhere else. It may not be far. But is far for places like this that have more then one service to loss money just so a few people can come in. Lossing one person that spends over $100 playing pull tabs over someone who just come in for a meal, it's not worth it. Or how about lossing $200-$400 a night on the poker talbe just so one person who may spend only $50 can play. You tell me how this is gonna help.

Idiots. You moved the smokers from inside buildings to outside where you and your CHILDREN have to walk to get to your car.

I would think you would prefer smokers safely inside of buildings, so you didn't have to smoke it.

Oh wait.. thats right.. the smoking establishments were where everyone wanted to go becuase, golly gee, the coolest people went there.

Now they don't. Guess where they are? Smoking somewhere else.

The only reason non smokers wanted a smoking bad was so they could go to these 'cool' places with rights they thought they were entitled to. It isn't the place that makes it cool, it is the people. The smokers, in most cases.

I guess the non smokers were wrong. Long live freedom!

I feel that there should be amendments to the law which would allow taverns and cocktail lounges to choose to have a smoking area. If the government health agencies are worried about the employees health, then employees could be required to sign some sort of legal contract stating that they are aware of the health risks and still choose to work there. I do smoke, but I do not go into bars. This ban has not changed anything in my life at all, so I am not trying to say change the ban so that I may enjoy myself. I do think it is unfair to business owners though, as even before the ban there were plenty of non-smoking bars around. I feel that the health agencies in our state government wanted this law. They want everyone to quit smoking. But I feel that if that ever were to happen, our state would lose a lot of money.

Btw, if you saw the statistics on where the money collected from the cigarette taxes and the money that the tobacco companies have to pay to the states actually was going, you may be surprised. There was an acticle in Readers' Digest a year or so back where they investigated where these monies were going and only about 10% of the amount collected was even going into health care.

Also, as a smoker, I have been making sure I stay well away (much farther away than the 25 feet required) from doors and windows of buildings for at least the last 10 years. When I am in a state park, I also walk far away from other people before lighting up. I also pick up my butts and dispose of them in a garbage can or my car after I put them out. But I have still had people make rude comments and gestures at me. I have even had people spray water at me when I was in my car stopped at a stop light and yell to put the butt out. I do not feel that people who do things like this deserve any better treatment or have "more" rights than I do. I am not overweight, but does that give me the right to make rude comments when I see an obese person at the grocery store whose cart is full of chips, cookies, ice cream, etc.? Our health care crisis is definitely being exacerbated by obese people. But I feel each person has a right to do to their own body what they want. It is not my right to tell them to stop eating such fattening foods because they are costing me more in health insurance costs.

Hopefully, we can come to some compromise. If not, then at least can you non-smokers please show some respect to those of us that do try our best to keep our smoke away from you?

Peggy,
Amen!!! The problem is, is that all of these holier-than-thou non smokers are way too closed minded about this. They think they are the only people that God intended to be on earth. According to all the non smokers, smokers are kind of like lepers or some other lower life form that they can control and persecute. AND EVERY DAMN ONE OF YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT. I think all the smokers ought to just ignore the communist gestapo laws and do whatever you please wherever you want and to hell with them. They can't put all of you in jail. Just give a courteous, respectful space between you and the non smokers. Just like the smokers have always tried to do.

Lol this is a ridiculous argument. Someone said "You should give the right to the business owners, they know what kind of business decision they're making." That's funny. Maybe we should let the business owners hire little children for 10 cents an hour too. Or maybe OSHA should stop enforcing chemical and health standards in the workplace, since businesses are notorious for their concern for the common person. Hell, if you don't want to smell John Doe's smoke, or get cancer, maybe you should just stay home. "this is my air and (cough cough choke choke) i'll be damned if i have to keep my cancer to myself!" There is more at stake here the your business'es bottom line, and your 'freedom' to destroy my health.

"Just give a courteous, respectful space between you and the non smokers." hehe. Yea, like the courteous, respectful space between your ears. Is it true that there are still unintelligent human-like forms out there that don't understand that just cause you can't see carcinogens, doesn't mean they aren't there? You can't see air circulating, but guess what?!! IT DOES!!

Wow!!! What a couple of putzes. That's just great. Let's start comparing smoking to child labor laws OSHA regulated chemical spills. Hell yeah, business owners don't need to make any money, they just like the job. What an idiot.

Oh. And Michael. A biggoted person like you is not worth the time to argue with. Maybe you need to air up the space between your ears before you start typing.

The smoking ban does not take rights away from anyone. It asserts the right of all people to work in a smoke-free environment (i.e. breath clean air).

You cannot rescind a right that doesn't exist.

I'm surprised that the pro-smoker's haven't tried to apply technology to this problem. I worked in a bar once (years ago) that installed air scrubbers that cleaned the smoke from the air. When they were on you couldn't tell that anyone was smoking unless you were sitting right next to them.

Rather than a complete ban, why not have an air quality requirement that could be met with air cleaning technology?

Instead of calling each other names, we could use our energy to find a solution that works for all. Just a thought.

I think that the voters of Washington should have researched the economic impact of this law before they blindly passed it. I have a few friends that work as waitresses or bartenders, they have lost about 75% of thier tips since this stupid law went into effect. Anyone who works in the foodservice/bar trades knows that a good percentage of your income comes from your tips. this has had a very large impact on some peoples incomes. People who are just trying to work and support thier families. How is this law fair to them? I have heard the arguement made the the ban on smoking in bars and restaurants is for the benefit of the employees so they dont have to breathe in second hand smoke at work, the catch is it cost them a good portion of thier income and jeopardised their jobs due to lack of business. How is a nonsmokers right to go into any establishment they like and not have to be exposed to second hand smoke more important that a persons right to support thier families? SHAME ON ALL YOU HEARTLESS PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR THIS RIDICULOS LAW!

I have a friend who at one time battled cocaine. I remember helping him clean out his house - the bank was taking it - and he was going to treatment.
Under his sink he had a water purifier that was hooked up. As I began unhooking it, he said something like 'make sure we dont lose that thing, tap water is very bad for you'.

While we focus on bs things like second hand smoke, we build more missiles and bombs and find places to use em - places like Iraq.
Whats really killing us? Second hand smoke?
pa-leeze.

Washington is not a liberal state, Washington is far from being a liberal state.

Just look at Civil Commitment. Talk about scarey stuff.

Just for the record, I'm a former smoker, mother of 3 and have worked in the food service industry for years, and I NEVER agree with smoking where children are present. I smoked outside when I did smoke so going outside doesn't bother me a bit.
I only have one problem with the law, and that is the supposed reasoning behind it....if you don't want to be around the smoke don't work/eat/drink or gamble there. Serving/bartending is NOT an "unskilled" vocation for the idiots who can't handle anything else. In fact if you've had bad service you know this. It takes a very special kind of person to do well at this kind of job. I didn't do it b/c I'm unskilled...frankly I DID do it for the $.
If everyone who for voted for this law in sooooo concerned with public safety, why do we even have bars? Don't the VAST majority of the patrons there get in their cars and drive home? What about everyone else with the bad luck of being on the road with those impaired drivers, no matter how slightly?
Isn't obesity also a MAJOR health risk to those who are fat and unfair to those who have to pay higher innsurance costs b/c of it? Yet where is the law banning me from that 16oz steak, covered baked potato and gigantic sundae? (Let's not forget the cocktail or two that must be okay since they were with dinner) Where's the law banning the servers from being required to "suggestive sell" liquor, appetizers and dessert? I think they should tax booze and twinkies and ban the places you can consume them too?
For that matter, let's pass a law that says you can do whatever you wish to yourself as long as it's in your house period. You can have a beer after work......in YOUR easy chair......you can have a super size Big Mac meal.....over YOUR kitchen sink.... you can have your large Snickers Blizzard...in YOUR own living room. If it's bad for you....go ahead...have all you want....just not around anyone else period....problem solved.

The "steak law" is coming, but it will be in a slightly different form. Since the obese have statiscally much higher medical costs employers are going to be forced to do one of three things to stay in business. Not hire the obese, have obese employees pay a significantly larger cost share of their medical coverage, or not offer health coverage.
We won't need a law since your eating won't make me fat, unlike your smoking which might give me cancer. I resent my health plan having to use my dollars to treat smokers for their self inflicted wounds, too. As long as it doesn't cost me money, you are free to do whatever you want.

I managed restaurants and bars for over nineteen years. I have many friends in the business still. I have a friend, I'll call her Suzie. She is a single mom w/ two great sons. She's a bartender and her income has dropped over 70%! She had to break the lease on the house she rented and move her and her two sons into a one bedroom / one bath apartment. Both boys usually play baseball. Not this year, she couldn't afford the registration fee. If I would've known this sooner I would have offered to pay it but it's too late now. Now the whopper, her hours have been cut and now she's not getting enough hours to qualify for health care insurance. As of February she and her boys no longer have health care insurance. This law is supposed to be protecting her and for her benefit?????
A restaurant and bar I used to manage has had their revenue drop by 30%. The restaurant was non-smoking and the bar was smoking before the ban. No employee ever had to work in the bar with the smoke unless they chose to but this ban ended up affecting even those who chose only to work in the non-smoking restaurant. The only way this restaurant and bar could keep in business with the revenue drop, caused by the smoking ban, was to discontinue having health insurance for their employees. Over a third of these employeess are single moms so now we have not just the employeess but all of these children without health insurance. How is this good for these employees and their children????
People had a choice before this law went into affect. You could choose to go to a non-smoking bar or a smoking bar. You could choose to work in a smoking or non-smoking work place. Those choices are gone. No one was ever forced to be subjected to second hand smoke.
In Marysville, long established bars and taverns are hurting unless they are defying the ban. With the casino here, many are heading there so they can have a smoke while they have a drink or dinner.Gregoire, I know has brought it up to the tribes, to end smoking in the tribal casinos. Most tribal casinos offer a non-smoking gambling area and non-smoking sections in their restaurants but they wil never get rid of smoking altogether. They know how much money they would lose and they already give their patrons the choice to be in a smoking or non-smoking enviroment.
This law is hurting those least able to afford it.

I love it! No smoking in Washington. I moved here 8 years ago from the great non smoking state of California. Where by the way the LAW WORKS and resturants and bars now have more positive cash flow then when smoking was allowed!

They will not repeal or amend this great law!

I am laughing at all you smokers! Whey dont you all go buy and island and kill yourselfs with smoke!

DING DONT THE WITCH IS DEAD! SMOKING IS BANNED!

All the bars I go to are now busier than before the ban. Even I am prone to stay longer because I know I'm not going home smelling like smoke. Good for the business owner. Bad for my liver.

Thank you for taking it outside.

If California is the "great non smoking state" Then by all means, feel free to move back!

If you don't care for something then simply DON'T DO IT!! If you like Fords, then Don't drive a Chevy.. But then again, by these standards it's acceptable to pass a law that EVERYBODY drive a Ford?
I don't care much for Chinese food, so I don't go to a chinese restraunt..seems pretty simple to me. A privlage I enjoy as an AMERICAN..freedom of CHOICE!
Here's a novel idea.. give the owner of the establishment the CHOICE! Smoking or nonsmoking. After all it is HIS buisness.. then if you can handle it YOU can make the CHOICE! Either you can go to a smoking or non smoking bar. Hey, we are all americans, we can make a CHOICE, can't we? Or should the government make it for us? If that is the case, why do we even bother with democracy?
It seems as though the very foundation this country was built upon is slowly crumbling away. First the simple freedoms, the government makes our choices for us, just where will it end?

There should be SOME regulations. Baning smoking in some areas is a wise choice. Not everybody is conciderate of other people. Banning smoking in a bar, makes about as much sence as banning popcorn from a movie theater.
I agree that second hand smoke kills,So does the exhaust from your car. While we are at it, lets ban those too. Getting too much sun causes skin cancer, who are we going to sue for that?
Come on people, lets be realistic. Regulations are fine, but lets put some thought and common sence into them.

soon as you turn 18! you have the right to smoke! soon as you turn 16! right to drive! you have the right to have sex when your 18!! you have the right to have a baby when ever you get pregnant!!! you have the right to drink alcohol when your 21!! you have a right to eat a steroid
tomato!! you have a right to be 100lbs overwieght!! you have a right to eat a fatty ass cheeseburger!! you have the right to have high chloesterol!!!!!! you have the right to be stressed out!!!!! you have a right to be gay!!! you have a right to catch salmon!! you have the right to shoot some one in your house!! (if they break in) you have the right to break a leg!!\ you have the right to become anyone you want!!!
you have the right to choose whether or not to serve a drunk person at a bar!!! you have the right to get drunk!!! you have the right to find all the non-smokers to fill your bar!!!! and you have the right to ban all the non-smokers from your bar!!! you have the right to stand up the the stupid law!!!!!!!! you have the right to an attorney!!!!!!!!!! you have a right to be in a church!!! you have a right to believe in GOD or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you have the right to catch cancer!!!!(without warning) you have the right to have a heart attack!!!(without warning)!! you have the right to breast cancer!! you have the right to prostate cancer!!! you have the right to colon cancer!!! you have the right to die!!!
you have the right to lung cancer!!!!!
you have the right to do what you want !!!!!!
you have the right to file for lawsuit!!!!
you have the right to file for every thing causes cancer!!!!!!! you have the right to smoke where you WANT

I sure am glad I moved out of Washington. Left there in 1994 and darn glad about that. I have something to say to Shaw. In one of your posts you said 80% are non smokers and voted for the law and therefore it is correct. So just live with it! Let me ask this: If 80% of the people decided they didn't like you and they voted to kill you, would that be correct and you should just live with it? Or, how about they vote to take your house, would that be correct? Should you just live with it? You need to realize that the USA is a Republic. Do your homework. I am a non smoker, but I also believe that the business owner should have the option to choose if they are a smoking or nonsmoking business. Then all they have to do is post a sign out front and let the customers decide if they want to enter or not. That sure sounds reasonable to me. You sound like one of these far left libs that think they know more about everything than everyone else.

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Oh, come on people. Run a smokers club out of your house. Or set up shop and volunteer on Friday/Saturday night, take tips and donations. Do It Yourself. Start a volunteer club. Enjoy!

Incidentally, when the bars start to feel it, the state might let you smoke in the bars again. But you'll be having too much fun to go back!