It was supposed to be a "win-win" deal. But no one's happy with the Sonics' lease at Key Arena and the team now says it's time for a remodel.
The Seattle Supersonics say time is running out. Their lease expires at the Key Arena expires in four years and they say, if they can't negotiate a better lease and get a $200 mil. expansion of Key Arena, they may have to leave. What do you think about King County taxpayers pitching in to keep the professional basketball in town? How would you react to the team possibly moving to Bellevue?
Can't imagine a $200 million upgrade to a $94 million building can possibly be a good investment. Seattle Center, Key Arena included, needs reassessment and a sound financial plan.
Have the sonics considered Tacoma? That's where they played during the last renovation. The south sound is starving for attention, I live in Federal Way and getting to a game on a weeknight is almost impossible.
Diana said:
No more taxpaid subsidies for professional sports teams. If they "need" a remodel, why don't they pay for it since they are also asking to keep all revenues and give zilch to the City...Seattleites voted against subsidies for Safeco Field and Qwest Fields, yet they were built, and here we are still paying for these fields from our taxes. I'm fine with driving to Bellevue to watch a Sonics game or a Storm game for that matter.
michael bolster said:
I would rather help my neighbors, average hard working americans, with their rising monthly health care bills than to contribute additional taxes that will enable pro sports owners, like the Sonics, to enable their players to buy even larger mansions to be portrayed on "MTV Cribs".
Steve said:
I get tired of the way they sell these packages to the public. Yes public taxes go to the stadiums but when we talk about how much it will cost you as a individual it is almost nothing. Ask yourself how much money are you out because of Seahawks stadium and Safeco field. The hotel motel, rental car, restaurant tax really add up to nothing per person and if you don't use any of these things it costs you nothing. The volume of these industries is what adds up the tax revenue and that is why sports teams choose these types of public tax to help build stadiums. I own two houses and pay over $1500 per year to schools and I do not even have kids. Now this is a tax that you can really see how it costs a tax payer and I would never support a sports team if they went for a property tax. Myself and others who own homes without kids are paying for public facilities when if you rent with kids you pay nothing for schools. Extending the taxes used to help out remodel Key Arena should be extended but if they moved to Bellevue I would almost prefer this. I have always lived on the Eastside and think they would make way more money over here.
John Nusbaum said:
I am so tired of hearing about bunch of over paid illiterates making millions of dollars wanting tax payers of who probably most have a hard time making it from paycheck to paycheck wanting more, more, more. I am a Washington native, 57 years old and retired from Boeing. As soon as my wife can retire we are moving from Washington because it is no longer economically feasable for us to leave here anymore. The correction and greed of Washingron politicians has ruined what was once a very wonderful place to grow up and live. If I had anything to say about it"which I don't" professional sports would have never made it to this area. Will someone please eduacate me on why we who barely make a living are being held for ranson by these millionare owners and players when it is they who should be paying for all of this for the privaledge of playing for the people. There isn't a player in any professional sport out there that is worth the money they are getting especially professional basketball. I'm willing to bet that a high percentage of them can't add or spell. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.
Alan Crawshaw said:
Let me see, first the Sonics got us to agree to remodel the Coliseum, voila--Key arena, then the Mariners wanted out of the King Dome, which we're still paying for. The Mariners proposal for tax payer support of their new stadium got voted down, so they went to the legislature, got the money, built Safeco field, tried to call the new rolling roof "unacticipated expenses" which the tax payer to pick up instead of them, then we blew up the Kingdome, we're still paying for it. Now we have Qwest Field after yet more public ballots and financing.
Let me see, now the poor Sonics are pleading for yet another remodel/ better deal so they can make money in Seattle. I got an idea, how about winning a few championships!! The team's fortune's went south back in 2000-2001 and with it their box office. Thankfully, we have the STORM!
This round robin of shaking down the tax payer ever 5-10 years will just keep going on and on and on.
The paradigm seems to be to compare our sports market (basketball, baseball, football) to others in their league and say we're below average for revenue, we can't buy the players we need because we can't make enough money in our venue.... If that doesn't work then they come out with the paradigm, competition for luxury suites is too tough in Seattle.
So look forward to the Mariners, who still have not seen a World Series slot, five years from now saying that they can't make it without a new stadium, and then the Super Bowl 40 Champion Seahawks wanting an even sweeter deal in 2015 if not before.
Dave Baratta said:
"Go Seahawks - and take the Sonics with you"
A Fan said:
What seems to be getting lost in all of this is that KeyArena is a MULTIPURPOSE VENUE! The Sonics and Storm combined don't even use the building for the majority of the events.
Seattle is losing more and more shows to the Everett Event Center, which means more money going away from Seattle. Just listen to where most of the concerts are being held this summer. Why? Because Everett has a nicer building.
The orriginal plan for the most recent remodel of the Key was scaled back at the beginning, so it's no suprise it's had a shorter life span. Let's do this one right and we'll see a revitalised Seattle Center.
And on top of everything, the Sonics and Storm aren't asking for anything that isn't privided to professional sports teams around the country, even in our OWN city. Safeco is a beautiful building. QWEST is a beautiful building. We all enjoy them, we all help pay for them. Shouldn't we extend these courtesies to our oldest sports franchise, and the only 2 teams to have brought championship glory to our city?
We should keep the Supersonics because they're one
maya said:
I FEEL PAYING TAXES FOR SCHOOLS AND ROADS IS
ONE THING THAT I CAN GO ALONG WITH, BUT
TO PAY TAXES TO REFURBISH ANOTHER SPORTS
ARENA IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. I AM ON A LIMITED
INCOME, AS ARE MANY THAT ARE RETIRED, AND CAN'T
AFFORD MORE TAXES ON A SPACE I HAVE NEVER USED
AND NEVER WILL. LET THE PEOPLE THAT GO TO
THE SPORTING EVENTS PAY FOR IT.
A. V. Harris, Jr. said:
A remodeled Coliseum might be acceptable if the facility paid for itself, rather than continually needed a subsidy to keep running. The huge objection I have to things like the stadiums and Coliseum is that they expect to use public monies in a for-profit enterprise. We see the salaries paid for basically blue-collar labor (atheletes) and then we see real other demands on our tax dollars such as infrastructure maintenance and there is only so much to go around. If the public is financially better off paying for stadiums and arena I have not seen the reports. We only get press releases for parties with conflict of interest. Let private enterprise pay its own way!
MJ Krob said:
Looking for your story on or around the 18th of Jan about the new industry standard transferring broadcast quality video over the internet
As someone who is not a Basketball fan, let 'em move to Bellevue. As someone who understands what it takes to compete city-to-city for business and employment, pay the money to keep the team. Look at the Hawks, people hated the stadium deal, but they all just bought millions dollars worth of gear + 10% sales tax. It may only break even in the bidget, but it adds street appeal to the city for both businesses and potential employees.
Anonymous said:
I Don't think that we should pay for it.Why don't they ask the owner to pay? They make money. We don't make as much as them. If someone like to say I own the Seattle Sonic, he is the one that has to pay the expence.
Stephen Anderson said:
The Sonics just don't get it. Their issues have always been about "their game" and not the fans. That's why they are in trouble.
The Seahawks and Mariners get it. They create an "experience" for the fans. Yes, we'd like to see our teams win every game, but we come back over and over because we enjoy the experience of that day.
The Sonics on the other hand make everything about them. They bank rolled on tiny, narrow, poor experience $100 club seats that went bust.
They banked on Club dining that was anything but a pleasant experience.
They sell tickets on how great the team is and how well they will do. When the team does poor, they have nothing to fall back on.
In the mid 90's, the Sonics raised my season tickets from $28 a seat to the mid 60's. I told them that my salary had not doubled in a single year....and I wasn't sure that they were seeing reality of a loyal fan. I was told that plenty of people wanted to "see the team" and I could pay the fee or else. Again it was all about the team.
Subsequently, I again bought season tickets years later in the Club section. The promotions were all about the team, not the fans. The seats were as bad as everyone warned me about. The club dining was very poor. When I called to ask about these items, I was told "but you're really enjoying the team winning eh?"
Yes, Seattle Supersonics it's all about the team.
Yes, Wally Walker it's all about your team.
Take a lesson from the Seahawks and the Mariners. It's about the fans and the experience e.g., the 12th man.
Evan B said:
I think king county residents are sick of being sold a tax plan that looks good on the surface then things dont work out. Some people are just being lazy with taxpayer "generosity". (sound transit/monorail/metro tunnel) Its bad planning, key arena went through this 10 years ago and It didnt work then why would it work now. I think an ideal solution would be to look an venues that are profitable without a large taxpayer subsidy, and use that model, add a casino or something.
Im pleased with Nick Licatas response to the sonics demands, we cant afford it when the public schools are shutting down!
bernie Thomas said:
I don't live in King County, but I believe that civic centers like the Quest and Safeco Fields bring tremendous positive images to the northwest, and to Seattle. The Space Needle has served as a highly visible, positive icon and a symbol of the northwest.
The Seattle Center and the Key should be up-dated periodically to reflect the knowledge-based economy of our times and going forward, it should serve to draw us nearer together. Seattle has the unique presence of small community but with attributes of large, urban cultural center of civilization of our region.
Other places like Staple Center among others are a source of pride for the wealthy team owners, and without these monikers of commercial pride in our respective regions, the regions would be the poorer. It's great that the great corporations of our day need the advertising and can help us as common people to access and see those who are the very best in the world at what they do, like football, baseball and basketball. Moreover, that the public do pay for these facilities by their attendance and overwhelming response to the teams when they do win, drawing pride in our region and inspiration to our youth, who may aspire to achieve just because the teams are located here.
It's great to see multiple uses being put the facilities since they belong to the public.
It would be great to see more activity in Spokane, but Bellevue is much closer to me. I am not always a Sonic fan, but I take pride in our civic buildings and facilities. They should be updated periodically to take advantage of those ammenties which draw us nearer together and create a stronger sense of community. I believe the architecture of our civic buildings may even increase our citizens' everyday aspirations for higher accomplishments in our professions and walks of life.
Maybe the plans for the monorail and other public facilities were not executed properly, but that doesn't alleviate the need for public facilities and efficient transportation. The evidence may not be there to us, yet. When fuel prices reach over $5 per gallon, having civic facilities in reach of rail and public transportation will only seem natural and well founded. It's great that the system of public watch dogs was in place to catch inconsistencies in the sales pitch. The reality is, the civic facilities bring us a sense of community that cannot be expressed in other ways. It costs money but at the end of the day, I appreciate the opportunity to gather with my neighbors and take pride in our facilities, our teams and our region.
Bernie Thomas
Mike said:
Does the $200M in tax dollars that the Sonics are asking for subsidize the renovation of the Key or does it subsidize the totally out of whack $54,000,000/ year payroll?
Also, Schultz, Walker and their investors are all accomplished businessmen that no doubt did their due diligence before buying the Sonics. The poorly performing contract at the Key was baked into the price they paid Ackerly.
It is embarrassing to watch Schultz act like this is a total surprise and go begging.
If you want the ego gratification of owning a pro sports franchise - buck up and stop whining!!!
Anonymous said:
The Key Arena NEEDS a renovation! And the Sonics cannot play any where besides Seattle! We are the Seattle Seahawks. Why is this an issue? We have amazing stadiums for our football and baseball teams, shouldn't basketball be equally important? I love the Sonics, and have been watching them play for so long. Them playing at the Tacoma Dome or anywhere besides the Key is just out of the question.
Anonymous said:
Safeco and Qwest fields are world class stadiums and a source a pleasure and pride for everyone in and around Seattle. Both were funded with hositality taxes on restaurants, hotels and rental cars in King County. Key Arena deserves equal treatment, and so do the Sonics and Storm. Don't forget the Seattle Center Coliseum is more than 40 years old, and the renovations in 1995 were made without taxpayer support. It's time to finish the job and keep Seattle's first professional sports franchise and World Championship teams playing in the Emerald City!
Anonymous said:
My goodness, look at the two comments above mine. They're so polished, so eloquent, so well thought out. They hit all the relevant points.
Why, if they weren't posted anonymously, I'd almost swear they came from someone's official PR firm. But we'll never know, since they were posted anonymously. Golly, how clever!
My personal opinion: The Sonics are losers. Losers don't get multi-million-dollar deals. Get out of town, and go beg some other sucker city for a handout!
Carol Koenig said:
Former Sonic season ticket holders dropped the Sonics due to their lack of morals & lack of positive example for young people not because of the Key Arena
Kelvin said:
People don't get it. I have been a sports fan for the last 40 years and I might not agree with paying more taxes but sports do help the quality of life. How do you measure that? You don't but it is there. Most of the taxes I believe are paying for this are the Hotel and Motel tax. Unless you used them then you don't pay taxes. We have no say in paying or not paying our property tax. We have to or we lose our houses. Let’s fight about that. That hurts my paycheck more than pro sports. I agree that we are helping millionaire owners but life isn't fair just asked the Seattle Seahawks. I can still watch the games on TV and pro sports do help my quality of life and I am sure that it helps other people to.
Brian Glas said:
King County has shut down/sold many parks over the last few years due to lack of funds. I would argue that keeping parks open does more to improve our quality of life than building sport palaces so people can sit and drink beer.
Tosha Slenning said:
As a person who does not watch or care for sports in any way...whether I have the extra monies for taxes or not... I feel that I should not have to pay the extra taxes on something I don't use. Therefore, if the Key arena is being used for sports events in any way, THE PEOPLE of Washington State or Seattle residents should not have to foot the bill. It should be the teams that use the Key arena especially since they make alot more monies than I or others do. I would rather put my monies into getting the homeless off the streets and into a home of their own, put monies towards better health care for them and create jobs for them. It is time we take care of our people before we take take of our home sports team's buildings or supplies. They want to play sports ...fine...let them pay for the remodeling. Other wise stop whinning at least you have somewhere to play. Immagine if you were homeless...no shelter, food, health insurance or clothing. Take that to the bank!!
Boyd said:
The sonics should persue the business plan that suits them best. In the meantime if they do move we have prime real estate available for a convention center. Make that space a convention center, then solve the north/south transit problem by taking the convention center off I5 so we can put elevated express lanes where they need to be.
Candie said:
Why is it that our state seems to worry more about spending money on keeping sports teams then it does about our homeless people or our school systems which are in dire need of funds? Seems rediculous to me to put more money into something to update it than it cost to build to begin with. If our politicians would put as much thought into the real problems of our communities we would be alot better off.
Jeff said:
I Have This great Idea! How Bout we start taxing Starbuck Coffee Drinkers Everytime They Stop Into The Starbuck Coffee shop.. After All Come On Folk's How Many People Really Stay In A Hotel Or Motel Everytime They Come Into Seattle To Watch A Loser Sonic Team? The Real Money Would Come From Starbuck's Taxes. But Then Again Chucky Schultz Would Whine To The Legislature About The Many People Not Drinking Coffee Cuz They Are Taxed To High.. You Ever Get The Feeling Taxpayers Are Really Stupid When Rich People Like Chucky Try To Convince You We Need The Loser Sonics In Town? Well We Certainly Can Suspect The Smarts Of Our Elected Officials If They Pass This Crap...
Mike said:
Too bad for the Sonics. I don't blame them for attempting to get what they can. Look at the Seahawks and Mariners. How many times did public say no and it got build anyway. Looks like it was one time too many as public doesn't seem interested in giving tax breaks to sports franchises anymore.
With a surplus in our state budget you would the legislature would be happy to oblige but surprisingly they are showing some intelligence and recognizing potential problems coming down the road. Keeping a sports franchise while nice is not critical.
Besides, if the Seattle City Council and the Sonics can't work out a deal why should the state step in and fix it. If Seattle and the Sonics can work out a deal, the surplus comes back again next year, maybe then the Sonics can ask and get some sympathy. Until, then do what you have to do and if it means moving, we will miss you.
Corey said:
I personaly think that if the Sonics want to expand or have a new statium, they first need to prove that the attendance is going to be there. If they are not selling out all thier seats a majority of the time, then there is obvously no need to expand or do anything different.
As well I feel that sports should not be funded in any way though our tax's. The only way I would apporve anything is if it was going to contribute back to the comunitiy and I'm not talking about the PR stuff that they do now. It needs to be whole hearted. Get a realistic model and support the comunity and stop leaching from it.
David Martin said:
I am so upset with King 5 TV and Robert Mak. I find it very disturbing that you used an African American as the voice of those speaking of those supporting the Seahawks rather than the Sonics. You are pushing those of us who would rather not use the race card, to use it in fact use it. You are instigating us to draw a line when we should not have too, which is precisely the point. It should not come down to providing for one (Seahawks and Mariners get subsidies) and not providing for the other (Sonics getting the same subsidies-treatment). Most blacks would choose the Sonics over the Mariners and Seahawks and most blacks would be very upset should our team leave. We have many of our children that play in the NBA (Jamaal Crawford-Rainier Beach, Doug Christie-Rainier Beach, Jason Terry-Franklin High School, Nate Robinson-Rainier Beach, and Sheila Lambert (WNBA)-Sealth High School.
We have so many of our children, from the black community, in the NBA or WNBA. To ignore this and to allow this team to leave this community would have a huge impact on this city, because you would only be inciting the anger we already have when witnessing how this region has become increasingly apathetic to our concerns.
I am so tired of this crap continually happening around me and I feel that I must speak out. You are using a black man to prove your point of the people of Seattle not caring if the Sonics leave is misleading and your motives are very suspicious.
I have noticed that ever since the Sonics moved from Kong TV to FSN there have been far more televised games. Your views are biased and your spinning of the issue is not right! Get it right Mak!
David Martin
Seattle, WA
ryan said:
I just went to the Denver Sonic game tonight and it was only about 1/2 to 3/4 full.It Looked empty and it just didnt feel like there were a lot of fans there..Like me, i am not a big fan of the sonics, like i am for the seahawks, i was just there because i came across some free tickets, i think most the other ppl did too,lol. I dont know much about politics but i do know this...even if it didnt cost me a thing to add on to key arena, i say pack'em up, and ship'em out...thanx sonics for the past, but on the way out dont let the door hit ya ,.....
Anonymous said:
Howard Schultz was on CNBC's Mad Money last week. He talked about how his Starbucks company and stock were doing so well; it's planning a big worldwide expansion, the stock value has increased 6500% since their IPO in 1991, and it already has a double-digit increase so far this year. He needs to start cashing in some of his stock to finance a Key Arena upgrade or build his own arena.
To those who are desperate for the Sonics to stay: If the Sonics move, Paul Allen may become tempted to move the Trail Blazers north, even without a government subsidy. If not, there will probably be lots of Trail Blazers games broadcast into the Seattle area through FSN. Also, I think we're now a large enough area that the NBA would be trying to place another team back here in short order, similar to the NFL's wooing of the LA market or NASCAR's attempt to come here. We hold the cards now, not the owners.
Andrew said:
SONICS MUST STAY! We need to do whatever it takes to keep the Sonics in Seattle. I wouldn't mind them moving to Bellevue but they CAN NOT LEAVE WASHINGTON! This is the only pro basketball team we have and it's not like there asking for a brand new arena. Just fixes and expansions on the one they already have. This team and this city can not afford to not have the Supersonics. WHATVER IT TAKES! WHATEVER IT TAKES!
Nikki said:
So did the bill pass already? Is this why so many people are so heated? Why is there such big fuss over the sonics when "hello" the schools are what we need to be fighting for. I am a fan of basketball but I am a bigger fan of education. So many out there are not wanting to pay for higher taxes so the education budget in our lovely state is getting cut, does it really seem fair to students that just want to go to school or is it better for a basketball team to get what they want.
Johnny said:
I am amazed that this is a surprise to so many people. The Sonics got a good 1990's deal and now they want a good 2000's deal. They are jealous of the sweetheart deal that The Seahawks, and The Mariners got. It's only natural that they would want the same. Although we have a mighty large softspot in our hearts for the Sonics, they are after all a company just like any other.
If there was any chance that my firm could get the City of Seattle to foot the bill for my inability to product a complelling product, I would be in line too :D
Tina V said:
In this time of underfunded schools, rising health care costs, etc. it seems to me that if the Sonics want a $200 mil renovation to Key areana maybe they should hold an auction or have bake sale like our schools are constantly being forced to do just to provide BASIC education services. When our children can't even go to the doctor because they don't have insurance and Seattle Public schools are looking at a $25mil + deficit I say shame on you to our city council and our Mayor for even considering $200 Mil for the Sonics!
Mary said:
Let the Sonics move. Why are we always held "hostage" by the million owners of these teams? I hate being threatened with "you pay $200 million or we are out of here". I have only one thing to say "bye-bye". And good ridance!
Mark said:
Why is it so difficult for American-based major professional sports franchises to build venues with their own private capital? The Toronto Raptors built their own venue, the Montreal Canadiens built their own venue, the Vancouver Canucks built their own venue.... and all three teams operate in the black despite having to finance their own building and pay taxes that would stun any owner in the US. Their seems to be a culture in the United States of apathy when it comes to applying pressure on billionaire owners to build their own venues and, as a consequence, invest in their community! If the City of Seattle is losing money on Key Arena, give it to the Sonics and let them rebuild it at their own expense and run it with the intent or generating a profit for themselves.
Jason said:
While I too pay property taxes and don't have kids in school, the government's responsibility is to ensure the greater good of the people so I support paying property taxes for schools. It also includes investments in the arts because that promotes long-term creativity and a better society, even if you don’t agree with one particular art endowment. This does include entertainment of the masses as well so some latitude or funding is certainly appropriate here.
However, I have a real issue with government subsidies for businesses that don’t largely benefit the society. 28k people attend each game x 82 home games or a maximum of 2.2M unique seats. However, we know that 60% of these tickets are season tickets so you’re really talking about a few hundred thousand unique people in the seats each year.
One should not forget the high cultural value of concerts, hockey, art events, etc in this venue as well. Many of these events are possible only because the fixed costs for the venue are largely covered by its biggest revenue clients – the Sonics and the Storm.
The real issue is that millions of dollars change hands for each game, not including the folks in the seats. Coke, Pepsi, Oh Boy Oberto, Key Bank and many others effectively advertise at these venues all across America and make real money off these facilities and the events as a result. The bulk of the money should come through increased sponsorship costs for these teams and events. This properly levies the money from those most interested and most affected by the event anyway.
I think the sponsors should sponsor their way to a new arena in Bellevue and eliminate the strangle hold that Seattle has on sports and major cultural events. This expands the scope of people that would attend events and builds a much needed facility to house events on the eastside.
I totally agree with the person that mentioned how the schools(our future) have to hold fund raisers and bake sales just to keep basic education. Pro sports make MULTI-MILLIONS and want people that make a few thousand to pay their way? I make $40,000 a year and am suppose to pay for someones $7,000,000 house? I will move and never come visit, rent a car, stay in a hotel ever again if this goes through! The whole idea is total crap!
Kelly said:
I used to live in the Seattle area and hope that my opinion still counts for something.
With the loosing streak that the Soncis are having I am not sure that renovations will create a lot more wins by the sonics.
If they want to move to Bellevue...let them. It's only a 15 minute drive from Seattle. Or I would even be willing to bake a couple dozen cookies for a bake sale.
I think that possibly that the Key Arena could be still renovated for a lower costs for more musical venues.
Charlotte S. said:
No matter what we stay as lowly tax payers, the govenor, senators,legislators and king county council will give a billionaire owner $200 million for millionare players to build a play field. Heck I can't even afford to go to a game!
They just don't care.
Not impressed said:
Who says the Key Center needs rennovation? The Sonics? No other groups/organizations who might use the building are complaining about it? Then I say no deal. Do we need to go through this debate every ten years? Perhaps you should've done a better job with the building in the 90s when you last remodeled. Sure, you'll fill the seats for the first year or two, as everyone comes to check out the building they are paying for, but after that, you're right back to where you are today. Don't threaten to leave, just let the door hit you on the way out and be done with it. Hope you find happiness in another market which will bow to your every whim.
Kathleen said:
Seattle is closing schools. Our kids are not passing the WASL. We do not need to spend tax dollars on keeping the Sonics.
KING 5 News Up Front with Robert Mak 
It was supposed to be a "win-win" deal. But no one's happy with the Sonics' lease at Key Arena and the team now says it's time for a remodel. 
The Seattle Supersonics say time is running out. Their lease expires at the Key Arena expires in four years and they say, if they can't negotiate a better lease and get a $200 mil. expansion of Key Arena, they may have to leave. What do you think about King County taxpayers pitching in to keep the professional basketball in town? How would you react to the team possibly moving to Bellevue?
Can't imagine a $200 million upgrade to a $94 million building can possibly be a good investment. Seattle Center, Key Arena included, needs reassessment and a sound financial plan.
No state tax dollars for the Sonics, please!
Have the sonics considered Tacoma? That's where they played during the last renovation. The south sound is starving for attention, I live in Federal Way and getting to a game on a weeknight is almost impossible.
No more taxpaid subsidies for professional sports teams. If they "need" a remodel, why don't they pay for it since they are also asking to keep all revenues and give zilch to the City...Seattleites voted against subsidies for Safeco Field and Qwest Fields, yet they were built, and here we are still paying for these fields from our taxes. I'm fine with driving to Bellevue to watch a Sonics game or a Storm game for that matter.
I would rather help my neighbors, average hard working americans, with their rising monthly health care bills than to contribute additional taxes that will enable pro sports owners, like the Sonics, to enable their players to buy even larger mansions to be portrayed on "MTV Cribs".
I get tired of the way they sell these packages to the public. Yes public taxes go to the stadiums but when we talk about how much it will cost you as a individual it is almost nothing. Ask yourself how much money are you out because of Seahawks stadium and Safeco field. The hotel motel, rental car, restaurant tax really add up to nothing per person and if you don't use any of these things it costs you nothing. The volume of these industries is what adds up the tax revenue and that is why sports teams choose these types of public tax to help build stadiums. I own two houses and pay over $1500 per year to schools and I do not even have kids. Now this is a tax that you can really see how it costs a tax payer and I would never support a sports team if they went for a property tax. Myself and others who own homes without kids are paying for public facilities when if you rent with kids you pay nothing for schools. Extending the taxes used to help out remodel Key Arena should be extended but if they moved to Bellevue I would almost prefer this. I have always lived on the Eastside and think they would make way more money over here.
I am so tired of hearing about bunch of over paid illiterates making millions of dollars wanting tax payers of who probably most have a hard time making it from paycheck to paycheck wanting more, more, more. I am a Washington native, 57 years old and retired from Boeing. As soon as my wife can retire we are moving from Washington because it is no longer economically feasable for us to leave here anymore. The correction and greed of Washingron politicians has ruined what was once a very wonderful place to grow up and live. If I had anything to say about it"which I don't" professional sports would have never made it to this area. Will someone please eduacate me on why we who barely make a living are being held for ranson by these millionare owners and players when it is they who should be paying for all of this for the privaledge of playing for the people. There isn't a player in any professional sport out there that is worth the money they are getting especially professional basketball. I'm willing to bet that a high percentage of them can't add or spell. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.
Let me see, first the Sonics got us to agree to remodel the Coliseum, voila--Key arena, then the Mariners wanted out of the King Dome, which we're still paying for. The Mariners proposal for tax payer support of their new stadium got voted down, so they went to the legislature, got the money, built Safeco field, tried to call the new rolling roof "unacticipated expenses" which the tax payer to pick up instead of them, then we blew up the Kingdome, we're still paying for it. Now we have Qwest Field after yet more public ballots and financing.
Let me see, now the poor Sonics are pleading for yet another remodel/ better deal so they can make money in Seattle. I got an idea, how about winning a few championships!! The team's fortune's went south back in 2000-2001 and with it their box office. Thankfully, we have the STORM!
This round robin of shaking down the tax payer ever 5-10 years will just keep going on and on and on.
The paradigm seems to be to compare our sports market (basketball, baseball, football) to others in their league and say we're below average for revenue, we can't buy the players we need because we can't make enough money in our venue.... If that doesn't work then they come out with the paradigm, competition for luxury suites is too tough in Seattle.
So look forward to the Mariners, who still have not seen a World Series slot, five years from now saying that they can't make it without a new stadium, and then the Super Bowl 40 Champion Seahawks wanting an even sweeter deal in 2015 if not before.
"Go Seahawks - and take the Sonics with you"
What seems to be getting lost in all of this is that KeyArena is a MULTIPURPOSE VENUE! The Sonics and Storm combined don't even use the building for the majority of the events.
Seattle is losing more and more shows to the Everett Event Center, which means more money going away from Seattle. Just listen to where most of the concerts are being held this summer. Why? Because Everett has a nicer building.
The orriginal plan for the most recent remodel of the Key was scaled back at the beginning, so it's no suprise it's had a shorter life span. Let's do this one right and we'll see a revitalised Seattle Center.
And on top of everything, the Sonics and Storm aren't asking for anything that isn't privided to professional sports teams around the country, even in our OWN city. Safeco is a beautiful building. QWEST is a beautiful building. We all enjoy them, we all help pay for them. Shouldn't we extend these courtesies to our oldest sports franchise, and the only 2 teams to have brought championship glory to our city?
We should keep the Supersonics because they're one
I FEEL PAYING TAXES FOR SCHOOLS AND ROADS IS
ONE THING THAT I CAN GO ALONG WITH, BUT
TO PAY TAXES TO REFURBISH ANOTHER SPORTS
ARENA IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. I AM ON A LIMITED
INCOME, AS ARE MANY THAT ARE RETIRED, AND CAN'T
AFFORD MORE TAXES ON A SPACE I HAVE NEVER USED
AND NEVER WILL. LET THE PEOPLE THAT GO TO
THE SPORTING EVENTS PAY FOR IT.
A remodeled Coliseum might be acceptable if the facility paid for itself, rather than continually needed a subsidy to keep running. The huge objection I have to things like the stadiums and Coliseum is that they expect to use public monies in a for-profit enterprise. We see the salaries paid for basically blue-collar labor (atheletes) and then we see real other demands on our tax dollars such as infrastructure maintenance and there is only so much to go around. If the public is financially better off paying for stadiums and arena I have not seen the reports. We only get press releases for parties with conflict of interest. Let private enterprise pay its own way!
Looking for your story on or around the 18th of Jan about the new industry standard transferring broadcast quality video over the internet
As someone who is not a Basketball fan, let 'em move to Bellevue. As someone who understands what it takes to compete city-to-city for business and employment, pay the money to keep the team. Look at the Hawks, people hated the stadium deal, but they all just bought millions dollars worth of gear + 10% sales tax. It may only break even in the bidget, but it adds street appeal to the city for both businesses and potential employees.
I Don't think that we should pay for it.Why don't they ask the owner to pay? They make money. We don't make as much as them. If someone like to say I own the Seattle Sonic, he is the one that has to pay the expence.
The Sonics just don't get it. Their issues have always been about "their game" and not the fans. That's why they are in trouble.
The Seahawks and Mariners get it. They create an "experience" for the fans. Yes, we'd like to see our teams win every game, but we come back over and over because we enjoy the experience of that day.
The Sonics on the other hand make everything about them. They bank rolled on tiny, narrow, poor experience $100 club seats that went bust.
They banked on Club dining that was anything but a pleasant experience.
They sell tickets on how great the team is and how well they will do. When the team does poor, they have nothing to fall back on.
In the mid 90's, the Sonics raised my season tickets from $28 a seat to the mid 60's. I told them that my salary had not doubled in a single year....and I wasn't sure that they were seeing reality of a loyal fan. I was told that plenty of people wanted to "see the team" and I could pay the fee or else. Again it was all about the team.
Subsequently, I again bought season tickets years later in the Club section. The promotions were all about the team, not the fans. The seats were as bad as everyone warned me about. The club dining was very poor. When I called to ask about these items, I was told "but you're really enjoying the team winning eh?"
Yes, Seattle Supersonics it's all about the team.
Yes, Wally Walker it's all about your team.
Take a lesson from the Seahawks and the Mariners. It's about the fans and the experience e.g., the 12th man.
I think king county residents are sick of being sold a tax plan that looks good on the surface then things dont work out. Some people are just being lazy with taxpayer "generosity". (sound transit/monorail/metro tunnel) Its bad planning, key arena went through this 10 years ago and It didnt work then why would it work now. I think an ideal solution would be to look an venues that are profitable without a large taxpayer subsidy, and use that model, add a casino or something.
Im pleased with Nick Licatas response to the sonics demands, we cant afford it when the public schools are shutting down!
I don't live in King County, but I believe that civic centers like the Quest and Safeco Fields bring tremendous positive images to the northwest, and to Seattle. The Space Needle has served as a highly visible, positive icon and a symbol of the northwest.
The Seattle Center and the Key should be up-dated periodically to reflect the knowledge-based economy of our times and going forward, it should serve to draw us nearer together. Seattle has the unique presence of small community but with attributes of large, urban cultural center of civilization of our region.
Other places like Staple Center among others are a source of pride for the wealthy team owners, and without these monikers of commercial pride in our respective regions, the regions would be the poorer. It's great that the great corporations of our day need the advertising and can help us as common people to access and see those who are the very best in the world at what they do, like football, baseball and basketball. Moreover, that the public do pay for these facilities by their attendance and overwhelming response to the teams when they do win, drawing pride in our region and inspiration to our youth, who may aspire to achieve just because the teams are located here.
It's great to see multiple uses being put the facilities since they belong to the public.
It would be great to see more activity in Spokane, but Bellevue is much closer to me. I am not always a Sonic fan, but I take pride in our civic buildings and facilities. They should be updated periodically to take advantage of those ammenties which draw us nearer together and create a stronger sense of community. I believe the architecture of our civic buildings may even increase our citizens' everyday aspirations for higher accomplishments in our professions and walks of life.
Maybe the plans for the monorail and other public facilities were not executed properly, but that doesn't alleviate the need for public facilities and efficient transportation. The evidence may not be there to us, yet. When fuel prices reach over $5 per gallon, having civic facilities in reach of rail and public transportation will only seem natural and well founded. It's great that the system of public watch dogs was in place to catch inconsistencies in the sales pitch. The reality is, the civic facilities bring us a sense of community that cannot be expressed in other ways. It costs money but at the end of the day, I appreciate the opportunity to gather with my neighbors and take pride in our facilities, our teams and our region.
Bernie Thomas
Does the $200M in tax dollars that the Sonics are asking for subsidize the renovation of the Key or does it subsidize the totally out of whack $54,000,000/ year payroll?
Also, Schultz, Walker and their investors are all accomplished businessmen that no doubt did their due diligence before buying the Sonics. The poorly performing contract at the Key was baked into the price they paid Ackerly.
It is embarrassing to watch Schultz act like this is a total surprise and go begging.
If you want the ego gratification of owning a pro sports franchise - buck up and stop whining!!!
The Key Arena NEEDS a renovation! And the Sonics cannot play any where besides Seattle! We are the Seattle Seahawks. Why is this an issue? We have amazing stadiums for our football and baseball teams, shouldn't basketball be equally important? I love the Sonics, and have been watching them play for so long. Them playing at the Tacoma Dome or anywhere besides the Key is just out of the question.
Safeco and Qwest fields are world class stadiums and a source a pleasure and pride for everyone in and around Seattle. Both were funded with hositality taxes on restaurants, hotels and rental cars in King County. Key Arena deserves equal treatment, and so do the Sonics and Storm. Don't forget the Seattle Center Coliseum is more than 40 years old, and the renovations in 1995 were made without taxpayer support. It's time to finish the job and keep Seattle's first professional sports franchise and World Championship teams playing in the Emerald City!
My goodness, look at the two comments above mine. They're so polished, so eloquent, so well thought out. They hit all the relevant points.
Why, if they weren't posted anonymously, I'd almost swear they came from someone's official PR firm. But we'll never know, since they were posted anonymously. Golly, how clever!
My personal opinion: The Sonics are losers. Losers don't get multi-million-dollar deals. Get out of town, and go beg some other sucker city for a handout!
Former Sonic season ticket holders dropped the Sonics due to their lack of morals & lack of positive example for young people not because of the Key Arena
People don't get it. I have been a sports fan for the last 40 years and I might not agree with paying more taxes but sports do help the quality of life. How do you measure that? You don't but it is there. Most of the taxes I believe are paying for this are the Hotel and Motel tax. Unless you used them then you don't pay taxes. We have no say in paying or not paying our property tax. We have to or we lose our houses. Let’s fight about that. That hurts my paycheck more than pro sports. I agree that we are helping millionaire owners but life isn't fair just asked the Seattle Seahawks. I can still watch the games on TV and pro sports do help my quality of life and I am sure that it helps other people to.
King County has shut down/sold many parks over the last few years due to lack of funds. I would argue that keeping parks open does more to improve our quality of life than building sport palaces so people can sit and drink beer.
As a person who does not watch or care for sports in any way...whether I have the extra monies for taxes or not... I feel that I should not have to pay the extra taxes on something I don't use. Therefore, if the Key arena is being used for sports events in any way, THE PEOPLE of Washington State or Seattle residents should not have to foot the bill. It should be the teams that use the Key arena especially since they make alot more monies than I or others do. I would rather put my monies into getting the homeless off the streets and into a home of their own, put monies towards better health care for them and create jobs for them. It is time we take care of our people before we take take of our home sports team's buildings or supplies. They want to play sports ...fine...let them pay for the remodeling. Other wise stop whinning at least you have somewhere to play. Immagine if you were homeless...no shelter, food, health insurance or clothing. Take that to the bank!!
The sonics should persue the business plan that suits them best. In the meantime if they do move we have prime real estate available for a convention center. Make that space a convention center, then solve the north/south transit problem by taking the convention center off I5 so we can put elevated express lanes where they need to be.
Why is it that our state seems to worry more about spending money on keeping sports teams then it does about our homeless people or our school systems which are in dire need of funds? Seems rediculous to me to put more money into something to update it than it cost to build to begin with. If our politicians would put as much thought into the real problems of our communities we would be alot better off.
I Have This great Idea! How Bout we start taxing Starbuck Coffee Drinkers Everytime They Stop Into The Starbuck Coffee shop.. After All Come On Folk's How Many People Really Stay In A Hotel Or Motel Everytime They Come Into Seattle To Watch A Loser Sonic Team? The Real Money Would Come From Starbuck's Taxes. But Then Again Chucky Schultz Would Whine To The Legislature About The Many People Not Drinking Coffee Cuz They Are Taxed To High.. You Ever Get The Feeling Taxpayers Are Really Stupid When Rich People Like Chucky Try To Convince You We Need The Loser Sonics In Town? Well We Certainly Can Suspect The Smarts Of Our Elected Officials If They Pass This Crap...
Too bad for the Sonics. I don't blame them for attempting to get what they can. Look at the Seahawks and Mariners. How many times did public say no and it got build anyway. Looks like it was one time too many as public doesn't seem interested in giving tax breaks to sports franchises anymore.
With a surplus in our state budget you would the legislature would be happy to oblige but surprisingly they are showing some intelligence and recognizing potential problems coming down the road. Keeping a sports franchise while nice is not critical.
Besides, if the Seattle City Council and the Sonics can't work out a deal why should the state step in and fix it. If Seattle and the Sonics can work out a deal, the surplus comes back again next year, maybe then the Sonics can ask and get some sympathy. Until, then do what you have to do and if it means moving, we will miss you.
I personaly think that if the Sonics want to expand or have a new statium, they first need to prove that the attendance is going to be there. If they are not selling out all thier seats a majority of the time, then there is obvously no need to expand or do anything different.
As well I feel that sports should not be funded in any way though our tax's. The only way I would apporve anything is if it was going to contribute back to the comunitiy and I'm not talking about the PR stuff that they do now. It needs to be whole hearted. Get a realistic model and support the comunity and stop leaching from it.
I am so upset with King 5 TV and Robert Mak. I find it very disturbing that you used an African American as the voice of those speaking of those supporting the Seahawks rather than the Sonics. You are pushing those of us who would rather not use the race card, to use it in fact use it. You are instigating us to draw a line when we should not have too, which is precisely the point. It should not come down to providing for one (Seahawks and Mariners get subsidies) and not providing for the other (Sonics getting the same subsidies-treatment). Most blacks would choose the Sonics over the Mariners and Seahawks and most blacks would be very upset should our team leave. We have many of our children that play in the NBA (Jamaal Crawford-Rainier Beach, Doug Christie-Rainier Beach, Jason Terry-Franklin High School, Nate Robinson-Rainier Beach, and Sheila Lambert (WNBA)-Sealth High School.
We have so many of our children, from the black community, in the NBA or WNBA. To ignore this and to allow this team to leave this community would have a huge impact on this city, because you would only be inciting the anger we already have when witnessing how this region has become increasingly apathetic to our concerns.
I am so tired of this crap continually happening around me and I feel that I must speak out. You are using a black man to prove your point of the people of Seattle not caring if the Sonics leave is misleading and your motives are very suspicious.
I have noticed that ever since the Sonics moved from Kong TV to FSN there have been far more televised games. Your views are biased and your spinning of the issue is not right! Get it right Mak!
David Martin
Seattle, WA
I just went to the Denver Sonic game tonight and it was only about 1/2 to 3/4 full.It Looked empty and it just didnt feel like there were a lot of fans there..Like me, i am not a big fan of the sonics, like i am for the seahawks, i was just there because i came across some free tickets, i think most the other ppl did too,lol. I dont know much about politics but i do know this...even if it didnt cost me a thing to add on to key arena, i say pack'em up, and ship'em out...thanx sonics for the past, but on the way out dont let the door hit ya ,.....
Howard Schultz was on CNBC's Mad Money last week. He talked about how his Starbucks company and stock were doing so well; it's planning a big worldwide expansion, the stock value has increased 6500% since their IPO in 1991, and it already has a double-digit increase so far this year. He needs to start cashing in some of his stock to finance a Key Arena upgrade or build his own arena.
To those who are desperate for the Sonics to stay: If the Sonics move, Paul Allen may become tempted to move the Trail Blazers north, even without a government subsidy. If not, there will probably be lots of Trail Blazers games broadcast into the Seattle area through FSN. Also, I think we're now a large enough area that the NBA would be trying to place another team back here in short order, similar to the NFL's wooing of the LA market or NASCAR's attempt to come here. We hold the cards now, not the owners.
SONICS MUST STAY! We need to do whatever it takes to keep the Sonics in Seattle. I wouldn't mind them moving to Bellevue but they CAN NOT LEAVE WASHINGTON! This is the only pro basketball team we have and it's not like there asking for a brand new arena. Just fixes and expansions on the one they already have. This team and this city can not afford to not have the Supersonics. WHATVER IT TAKES! WHATEVER IT TAKES!
So did the bill pass already? Is this why so many people are so heated? Why is there such big fuss over the sonics when "hello" the schools are what we need to be fighting for. I am a fan of basketball but I am a bigger fan of education. So many out there are not wanting to pay for higher taxes so the education budget in our lovely state is getting cut, does it really seem fair to students that just want to go to school or is it better for a basketball team to get what they want.
I am amazed that this is a surprise to so many people. The Sonics got a good 1990's deal and now they want a good 2000's deal. They are jealous of the sweetheart deal that The Seahawks, and The Mariners got. It's only natural that they would want the same. Although we have a mighty large softspot in our hearts for the Sonics, they are after all a company just like any other.
If there was any chance that my firm could get the City of Seattle to foot the bill for my inability to product a complelling product, I would be in line too :D
In this time of underfunded schools, rising health care costs, etc. it seems to me that if the Sonics want a $200 mil renovation to Key areana maybe they should hold an auction or have bake sale like our schools are constantly being forced to do just to provide BASIC education services. When our children can't even go to the doctor because they don't have insurance and Seattle Public schools are looking at a $25mil + deficit I say shame on you to our city council and our Mayor for even considering $200 Mil for the Sonics!
Let the Sonics move. Why are we always held "hostage" by the million owners of these teams? I hate being threatened with "you pay $200 million or we are out of here". I have only one thing to say "bye-bye". And good ridance!
Why is it so difficult for American-based major professional sports franchises to build venues with their own private capital? The Toronto Raptors built their own venue, the Montreal Canadiens built their own venue, the Vancouver Canucks built their own venue.... and all three teams operate in the black despite having to finance their own building and pay taxes that would stun any owner in the US. Their seems to be a culture in the United States of apathy when it comes to applying pressure on billionaire owners to build their own venues and, as a consequence, invest in their community! If the City of Seattle is losing money on Key Arena, give it to the Sonics and let them rebuild it at their own expense and run it with the intent or generating a profit for themselves.
While I too pay property taxes and don't have kids in school, the government's responsibility is to ensure the greater good of the people so I support paying property taxes for schools. It also includes investments in the arts because that promotes long-term creativity and a better society, even if you don’t agree with one particular art endowment. This does include entertainment of the masses as well so some latitude or funding is certainly appropriate here.
However, I have a real issue with government subsidies for businesses that don’t largely benefit the society. 28k people attend each game x 82 home games or a maximum of 2.2M unique seats. However, we know that 60% of these tickets are season tickets so you’re really talking about a few hundred thousand unique people in the seats each year.
One should not forget the high cultural value of concerts, hockey, art events, etc in this venue as well. Many of these events are possible only because the fixed costs for the venue are largely covered by its biggest revenue clients – the Sonics and the Storm.
The real issue is that millions of dollars change hands for each game, not including the folks in the seats. Coke, Pepsi, Oh Boy Oberto, Key Bank and many others effectively advertise at these venues all across America and make real money off these facilities and the events as a result. The bulk of the money should come through increased sponsorship costs for these teams and events. This properly levies the money from those most interested and most affected by the event anyway.
I think the sponsors should sponsor their way to a new arena in Bellevue and eliminate the strangle hold that Seattle has on sports and major cultural events. This expands the scope of people that would attend events and builds a much needed facility to house events on the eastside.
I totally agree with the person that mentioned how the schools(our future) have to hold fund raisers and bake sales just to keep basic education. Pro sports make MULTI-MILLIONS and want people that make a few thousand to pay their way? I make $40,000 a year and am suppose to pay for someones $7,000,000 house? I will move and never come visit, rent a car, stay in a hotel ever again if this goes through! The whole idea is total crap!
I used to live in the Seattle area and hope that my opinion still counts for something.
With the loosing streak that the Soncis are having I am not sure that renovations will create a lot more wins by the sonics.
If they want to move to Bellevue...let them. It's only a 15 minute drive from Seattle. Or I would even be willing to bake a couple dozen cookies for a bake sale.
I think that possibly that the Key Arena could be still renovated for a lower costs for more musical venues.
No matter what we stay as lowly tax payers, the govenor, senators,legislators and king county council will give a billionaire owner $200 million for millionare players to build a play field. Heck I can't even afford to go to a game!
They just don't care.
Who says the Key Center needs rennovation? The Sonics? No other groups/organizations who might use the building are complaining about it? Then I say no deal. Do we need to go through this debate every ten years? Perhaps you should've done a better job with the building in the 90s when you last remodeled. Sure, you'll fill the seats for the first year or two, as everyone comes to check out the building they are paying for, but after that, you're right back to where you are today. Don't threaten to leave, just let the door hit you on the way out and be done with it. Hope you find happiness in another market which will bow to your every whim.
Seattle is closing schools. Our kids are not passing the WASL. We do not need to spend tax dollars on keeping the Sonics.